1 |
Alex Howells wrote: |
2 |
> I wasn't attempting to state "This does not work!"; merely expressing |
3 |
> that ~arch isn't really a supported platform. Dropping back to stable |
4 |
> isn't really a viable route, once your system is ~arch there's quite a |
5 |
> lot to go <BOOM!> if you tried to globally undo that. Wanna try it? |
6 |
> ;) |
7 |
|
8 |
I've never had to, but yes, it's nearly impossible. |
9 |
|
10 |
> At the moment Gentoo Linux has a reputation as a "ricer" distribution, |
11 |
> and a large proportion of users on ~arch does nothing to solve that... |
12 |
> Speaking entirely frankly I'd love to see increased adoption in |
13 |
> enterprise, there's a whole lot this distribution has to offer to |
14 |
> server farms, for example. |
15 |
|
16 |
Well, there's nothing wrong with being a ricer. :) At the very least, |
17 |
even if you stay with "stable", you can still compile "-O2 -march=" on |
18 |
Gentoo. Most of the other distros saddle you with i386, and I have no |
19 |
clue what optimization, if any, they do. |
20 |
|
21 |
Gentoo in the enterprise? Nobody ever got fired for buying RHEL or |
22 |
Novell SuSE. It's possible Ubuntu will get to that point someday, but |
23 |
you aren't going to see a "pure community" distro like Gentoo, Debian, |
24 |
or even Fedora any place where there's even a whiff of risk aversion. |
25 |
Enterprise IT departments want to be able to call up a sales rep and |
26 |
threaten to quit buying if the vendor doesn't come in and fix stuff *now*! |
27 |
|
28 |
> Look at it this way: by running ~arch whilst *not* a Developer or |
29 |
> Arch Tester you're having a very limited impact, or possibly a |
30 |
> negative one. Getting onto the 'track' of contributing to the project |
31 |
> through the various 'Arch Tester' teams is a great way for a "Power |
32 |
> User" to help out; should you feel you're more technically inclined, |
33 |
> can write a useful language or three / hack ebuilds as naturally as |
34 |
> breathing, I know we need Developers! Especially in understaffed |
35 |
> areas like Release Engineering. :) |
36 |
|
37 |
Well, I put in a fair amount of free time with various open source |
38 |
projects. I basically test stuff that I use, like R, Axiom, Common |
39 |
Music, LyX and the Ruby language and its gems. And I'm also a student of |
40 |
the innards of the Linux kernel. If I had any time left over from that |
41 |
and my day job, I'd probably do something like make ebuilds for a few |
42 |
packages I like that aren't in Portage, for example, the PRISM model |
43 |
checker, CSound (which is a real challenge, by the way) or SMCSolver. |
44 |
|
45 |
> I'd have liked to see two main things happen with Gentoo 2008.0: |
46 |
> |
47 |
> * Get rid of stage3 - all our install documentation works with |
48 |
> just the stage3 right now, we don't "support" stage1/2 |
49 |
> installs yet users are /always/ asking on IRC and MLs |
50 |
> for help with a stage1 install because they think it's l33t. |
51 |
> Remove it from mirrors, put it in /experimental, whatever; |
52 |
> we need the stage1/2 somewhere for lotsa reasons, but lets |
53 |
> make it less obvious to weed out those clueless ricers. |
54 |
|
55 |
Did you mean to say "get rid of stage3" or "get rid of stage1 and |
56 |
stage2?" Is there a way to do an install without stage3? |
57 |
|
58 |
> |
59 |
> (the next one is more of a Portage change) |
60 |
> * Have some warning banners on ~arch and a toggle option for |
61 |
> make.conf to disable them. There are *far* too many people |
62 |
> on IRC suggesting newbies adopt ~arch, and they do so.. :( |
63 |
> They've got no clue what it means, then they bitch/whine |
64 |
> when they hit ABI issues or other problems and blame Gentoo. |
65 |
> Don't document the toggle option in the Install Manual ;) |
66 |
|
67 |
Well, I'm certainly in favor of disabling it on the LiveCD/DVD |
68 |
installer! While you're at it, force everyone to take i686 and -O2 along |
69 |
with not getting ~arch on the installer. In other words, force them to |
70 |
what they'd get if they installed networkless. Hell, you might as well |
71 |
force them to take ext3 filesystems, since they're the only ones that |
72 |
really work. ;) |
73 |
|
74 |
Those few times I've installed a new box from the LiveCD/DVD, I've |
75 |
always done it networkless anyhow. That way, I get the box on the air in |
76 |
a short time and *then* I can indulge my inner ricer. :) |
77 |
|
78 |
> Suggested value for disabling the big flashy warning banners :P |
79 |
> MODIFYING_ACCEPT_KEYWORDS_MAY_BREAK_MY_BOX_AND_I_UNDERSTAND_THIS |
80 |
|
81 |
Yep ... fine with me. |
82 |
|
83 |
|
84 |
-- |
85 |
gentoo-releng@l.g.o mailing list |