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On Thursday 21 February 2008 13:35:52 Eduardo Tongson wrote: |
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> If no Gentoo developer comes forward, I volunteer myself. Seems |
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> everybody is busy and overworked to even authorize an official team. |
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> Any Gentoo developer who can share their 'a day in the life of the |
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> Gentoo Kernel Security team' experience? |
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|
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For those interested try dropping by #gentoo-security on Freenode and talk to |
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rbu, I think he's spoken with a few interested already. |
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|
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After Fosdem this weekend I hope to catch up a bit on the kernel situation. |
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|
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-- |
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Sune Kloppenborg Jeppesen (Jaervosz) |
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Gentoo Linux Security Team |
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http://security.gentoo.org |
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|
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> |
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> -- ed*eonsec |
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> |
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> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 5:54 PM, Peter Hjalmarsson <xake@×××××××××.net> |
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wrote: |
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> > AFAICS the thing missing is a leader. Someone to make a starting point |
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> > for the followers to make use of (not necessary inside of gentoo, I |
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> > believe it can always be integrated later if there are devs enough to |
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> > pick things up and integrate), a place for him to collect and keep list |
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> > and contact with interested people (also to keep "me too"-noise from |
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> > this list). |
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> > |
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> > This does not even have to be a integrated gentoo solution, am I right? |
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> > Anybody having a hosting space could host a db with the |
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> > information/advisories. |
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> > And the hosting one could let anyone he/she trusts write info to that |
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> > db. |
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> > That db could be like "This vournable exists, these are the problems, |
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> > these are the workarounds/patches and there are no fixed kernel |
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> > versions/these kernel versions are fixed" where info could be updated as |
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> > they get along. |
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> > And anybody that has the time and skill could write a applications that |
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> > fetch info from this db about the currently running kernel and presents |
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> > the user with the text "No known vournables" or "These vournables |
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> > exists" with links to the information in the db about that advisory. |
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> > This way a user can run the application, get a message, read the |
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> > advisories and decide "I need to update to at least this version" or "I |
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> > do not need to update". |
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> > |
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> > The thing needed after that is persons to keep this db up to date and |
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> > maybe bug devs to get fixed versions into portage. |
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> > But these people needs a central collection point where they could |
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> > "meet" and start moving things. |
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> > |
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> > And anybody can bug any dev in bugzilla if a kernel is not fixed, but |
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> > the chances over-worked devs will notice and be more helpful if you are |
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> > more helpful with what, when and why this kernel thing should be fixed |
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> > (i.e. come well prepared). |
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> > |
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> > tor 2008-02-21 klockan 11:16 +0800 skrev Eduardo Tongson: |
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> > > Alright how do we proceed to get this team started. |
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> > > |
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> > > ed*eonsec |
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> > > |
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> > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Ned Ludd <solar@g.o> wrote: |
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> > > > On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 13:59 -0500, Harlan Lieberman-Berg wrote: |
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> > > > > On Sunday 17 February 2008 23:12:35 Robert Buchholz wrote: |
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> > > > > > On Sunday, 17. February 2008, Eduardo Tongson wrote: |
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> > > > > > > What specific kernel knowledge is needed to get a Kernel |
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> > > > > > > advisory up and running ? |
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> > > > > > |
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> > > > > > Between becoming aware of a vulnerability in Linux and drafting |
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> > > > > > an advisory for one or all kernel sources comes the part where |
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> > > > > > you review which versions of which kernel sources are affected |
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> > > > > > and unaffected. You also need to pay attention to specifics of |
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> > > > > > the added patchsets, which might duplicate vulnerabilities. |
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> > > > > > |
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> > > > > > Parts of the job can indeed be done without Kernel and C |
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> > > > > > knowledge, but some cannot. So if we draft a new kernel |
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> > > > > > security *team*, people without C and kernel knowledge are |
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> > > > > > helpful -- some others need to have it, though. |
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> > > > > > |
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> > > > > > Robert |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > To be honest, 99% of what is done in the kernel security team can |
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> > > > > be done with no C knowledge at all. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > I'm not an expert C person - far from it - but I eventually |
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> > > > > became the head of Kernel Security until I retired a few months |
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> > > > > ago. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > Most of it is bug handling. The major problem is a social, not a |
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> > > > > technical one. Because of the manner in which our kernels are |
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> > > > > organized, a single vulnerability involves checking upstream |
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> > > > > version numbers, coordinating them into our downstream version |
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> > > > > numbers for all sources, checking to see if the sources are |
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> > > > > effected, figuring out who to CC for the bugs, then harassing |
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> > > > > them until they do it. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > Unlike other security sources, any attempt to hardmask the |
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> > > > > package is shutdown instantly. The chaos that would result from |
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> > > > > a kernel hardmask, even one of the lesser used ones, caused me to |
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> > > > > only successfully order one over my entire career in Gentoo |
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> > > > > Kernsec... even though more around 30 would have been needed. It |
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> > > > > is not infrequently that bugs will last six months without any |
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> > > > > action coming about them, and users are blissfully unaware. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > I am happy to give my input as the former head of Kernel |
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> > > > > Security, but it is my personal opinion that any advances in |
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> > > > > kernel security will require the full cooperation of security, |
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> > > > > and letting the head of kernel security be able to actually |
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> > > > > enforce threats, as that seems to be the only way bugs ever get |
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> > > > > resolved. Pleading didn't work - I tried. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > -Harlan Lieberman-Berg |
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> > > > > Gentoo Developer Emeritus |
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> > > > |
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> > > > Every word of what you said is painfully true. The only way to |
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> > > > accomplish this would be with an Iron Fist(fail) or a team of ~15 |
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> > > > guys who do nothing but patch and push new kernels and the PR that |
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> > > > goes along with them every few days. |
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> > > > -- |
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> > > > Ned Ludd <solar@g.o> |
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> > > > |
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> > > > |
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> > > > |
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> > > > -- |
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> > > > gentoo-security@l.g.o mailing list |
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-- |
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