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List Archive: gentoo-security
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To: <gentoo-security@g.o>
From: "Marcin Dylewski" <marcin.dylewski@...>
Subject: Re: Kernel Security + KISS
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:30:32 +0100
Hi All,

I am interested in contributing as well. Moderate C knowledge and strong 
linux background.

Regards,
Marcin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arthur Bispo de Castro" <arthur@...>
To: <gentoo-security@g.o>
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [gentoo-security] Kernel Security + KISS


> I'm interested... little C knowledge, very curious about kernel, strong
> linux background...
>
> is there another prereq to join this?
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 04:20:02AM -0200, Juan Pablo Olivera wrote:
>> I am interested too :)
>>
>> No C knowledge but strong linux background and very organized guy.
>>
>> On Thu, 2008-02-21 at 01:05 -0500, Casey Link wrote:
>> > It would probably help if we knew how many people were interested.
>> >
>> > I am. +1
>> >
>> > Casey
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 10:16 PM, Eduardo Tongson <propolice@...> 
>> > wrote:
>> > > Alright how do we proceed to get this team started.
>> > >
>> > >   ed*eonsec
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >  On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 6:55 AM, Ned Ludd <solar@g.o> wrote:
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >  On Wed, 2008-02-20 at 13:59 -0500, Harlan Lieberman-Berg wrote:
>> > >  >  > On Sunday 17 February 2008 23:12:35 Robert Buchholz wrote:
>> > >  >  > > On Sunday, 17. February 2008, Eduardo Tongson wrote:
>> > >  >  > > > What specific kernel knowledge is needed to get a Kernel 
>> > > advisory up
>> > >  >  > > > and running ?
>> > >  >  > >
>> > >  >  > > Between becoming aware of a vulnerability in Linux and 
>> > > drafting an advisory
>> > >  >  > > for one or all kernel sources comes the part where you review 
>> > > which
>> > >  >  > > versions of which kernel sources are affected and unaffected. 
>> > > You also
>> > >  >  > > need to pay attention to specifics of the added patchsets, 
>> > > which might
>> > >  >  > > duplicate vulnerabilities.
>> > >  >  > >
>> > >  >  > > Parts of the job can indeed be done without Kernel and C 
>> > > knowledge, but
>> > >  >  > > some cannot. So if we draft a new kernel security *team*, 
>> > > people without C
>> > >  >  > > and kernel knowledge are helpful -- some others need to have 
>> > > it, though.
>> > >  >  > >
>> > >  >  > > Robert
>> > >  >  >
>> > >  >  > To be honest, 99% of what is done in the kernel security team 
>> > > can be done with
>> > >  >  > no C knowledge at all.
>> > >  >  >
>> > >  >  > I'm not an expert C person - far from it - but I eventually 
>> > > became the head of
>> > >  >  > Kernel Security until I retired a few months ago.
>> > >  >  >
>> > >  >  > Most of it is bug handling.  The major problem is a social, not 
>> > > a technical
>> > >  >  > one.  Because of the manner in which our kernels are organized, 
>> > > a single
>> > >  >  > vulnerability involves checking upstream version numbers, 
>> > > coordinating them
>> > >  >  > into our downstream version numbers for all sources, checking 
>> > > to see if the
>> > >  >  > sources are effected, figuring out who to CC for the bugs, then 
>> > > harassing
>> > >  >  > them until they do it.
>> > >  >  >
>> > >  >  > Unlike other security sources, any attempt to hardmask the 
>> > > package is shutdown
>> > >  >  > instantly.  The chaos that would result from a kernel hardmask, 
>> > > even one of
>> > >  >  > the lesser used ones, caused me to only successfully order one 
>> > > over my entire
>> > >  >  > career in Gentoo Kernsec... even though more around 30 would 
>> > > have been
>> > >  >  > needed.  It is not infrequently that bugs will last six months 
>> > > without any
>> > >  >  > action coming about them, and users are blissfully unaware.
>> > >  >  >
>> > >  >  > I am happy to give my input as the former head of Kernel 
>> > > Security, but it is
>> > >  >  > my personal opinion that any advances in kernel security will 
>> > > require the
>> > >  >  > full cooperation of security, and letting the head of kernel 
>> > > security be able
>> > >  >  > to actually enforce threats, as that seems to be the only way 
>> > > bugs ever get
>> > >  >  > resolved.  Pleading didn't work - I tried.
>> > >  >  >
>> > >  >  > -Harlan Lieberman-Berg
>> > >  >  > Gentoo Developer Emeritus
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >  Every word of what you said is painfully true. The only way to
>> > >  >  accomplish this would be with an Iron Fist(fail) or a team of ~15 
>> > > guys
>> > >  >  who do nothing but patch and push new kernels and the PR that 
>> > > goes along
>> > >  >  with them every few days.
>> > >  >  --
>> > >  >  Ned Ludd <solar@g.o>
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  >  --
>> > >  >  gentoo-security@g.o mailing list
>> > >  >
>> > >  >
>> > >  --
>> > >  gentoo-security@g.o mailing list
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>> -- 
>> gentoo-security@g.o mailing list
>
> -- 
> Arthur Bispo de Castro
> Laboratório de Administração e Segurança (LAS/IC)
> Universidade Estadual de Campinas (UNICAMP)
> -- 
> gentoo-security@g.o mailing list
> 

-- 
gentoo-security@g.o mailing list


References:
Kernel Security + KISS
-- Casey Link
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Eduardo Tongson
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Robert Buchholz
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Harlan Lieberman-Berg
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Ned Ludd
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Eduardo Tongson
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Casey Link
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Juan Pablo Olivera
Re: Kernel Security + KISS
-- Arthur Bispo de Castro
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Updated Jun 17, 2009

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