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List Archive: gentoo-trustees
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To: <gentoo-trustees@g.o>
From: "drobbins" <drobbins@g.o>
Subject: RE: store and foundation
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:36:50 -0700
> From: Paul de Vrieze [mailto:pauldv@g.o]
> Let me say that I hope we will be able to continue to do so. From the
> foundation's point of view we need to look at the status of the shop.
> Currently the shop is the "official" gentoo shop. I think this status can
> continue given that the shop also benefits the distribution in some way. A
> cut of the profits (in whatever way defined) is such a way.

OK, then it sounds like the $x per product model will work well. As the
store continues to operate, I will continue with this model for now and
gradually expand the products that have $x set aside as I figure out the
right amounts.

> For example, what would we do when someone came to the foundation with the
> request to buy (for selling on) "official" gentoo DVD's. Those DVD's that
> you made. We cannot just say "it's OK" without involving you. This case 
> did not happen yet, but can we require you to sell them on for wholesale
> prices?
> Probably not. Or to license the artwork for a reasonable price? Same story

I admit that those issues are confusing. The off-list posts have discouraged
me from continuing to run the store. So it may be pointless to try to work
out these issues. 

These issues are really trustee issues that all trustees should be finding
good solutions for, and then coordinating with me and others for feedback
and suggestions. I would hope that they would be decided with concern for
all parties involved. But I think it's the job of the trustees to start
looking for solutions that work for the future and are also compatible with
past arrangements.

Maybe give it a couple of weeks before we spend any legal effort on this. Or
at least make sure that your legal guys are doing any necessary end-of-year
NFP paperwork first that may be due (I have no idea if any is if you don't
have a bank account set up, but if one gets set up before the end of the
year, then it's very likely that you are required by law to file a bunch of
paperwork. Another complication.)

In the long term, I don't want to wade through unnecessary unpleasant stuff
like is happening with Kurt off-list. That is one of the reasons why rac
would be a good person for me to work with, because he seems focused on
solving problems for the benefit of everyone.

> I like you, but I think that some solid legal work can help continue the
> relations in a friendly way.

> I've got no problem with Rac, although talking directly might be better.

I have no problem talking directly, it's just that I haven't seen any
talking from trustees recently. I have kept Kurt totally informed about what
I was doing, and it did not prevent me from getting blindsided in a very bad
way yesterday, at the worst possible time. So maybe an intermediary would be
better because rac will have time to bug trustees for their opinions on
things, and keep me informed of them, which seems to be necessary to make
sure "everything is OK" and that everyone can work smoothly and without
unnecessarily wasted effort and stress. I just want to run the store.

> ps. I don't mind that much how "revenue" gets to the foundation. Be it a
> percentage of revenue, a fixed amount per product, or even a percentage of
> net profit. My main point is that the position of the shop probably needs
> more clarity. What can the shop expect from gentoo, and what can gentoo
> expect from the shop.

It is hard to know what to expect beyond a certain $x and $y per each item
sold, plus all donations collected. That's why I think that this is a good
model to expand on.

I would like to help solve these problems but only if the environment is
friendly, supportive and communicative about concerns. My primary concern in
the past 2 months has been getting the Store up to speed so that it can
start bringing in additional money beyond donations for the Foundation and
so the store can generate revenue to justify me continuing to run it.
Otherwise I need to shut it down. By adding the DVDs and expanding the store
product line, I am trying to make things work better for all of us. 

My job is to run the store, not run Gentoo... meaning, good solutions to the
questions you raise that work for everyone should probably be researched by
you guys, not me. Remember, I am not a trustee, and I am not volunteering my
time to continue to help build the Foundation and its rules. That's your

I just ask that when this task is done, it is done with concern,
consideration and open communication with all parties. I believe that this
is something that you and Sven both want, and I do too :)



gentoo-trustees@g.o mailing list

Re: store and foundation
-- Sven Vermeulen
Re: store and foundation
-- Paul de Vrieze
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