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> Imho, we can allow this if: |
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> - the announcements aren't too frequent (for instance, at most one every |
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> month) |
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> - the store sends x percent of it's revenues to the Gentoo Foundation |
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|
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Putting aside x percent of revenues is something that is unworkable. On the |
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other hand, it is relatively easy for me to set aside $x or $y for |
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individual products, because that is easier to budget. |
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|
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Here's why. When you set aside a specific $ amount per item, the profit |
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margin of each item can be taken into account to determine the $x. Not all |
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items in the store have an equal profit margin (consider for a moment that |
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we used to sell full-color XXL t-shirts for a measly $12 USD, and for a time |
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we were even losing money on shipping these shirts.) |
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|
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An example -- we have a single DVD set that includes a $3 donation to the |
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foundation, and a double DVD set that includes a $3 donation to the |
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foundation. Why the same donation amount when the first one is $25 and the |
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second $35? Because the second item includes 2 DVDs but is not double the |
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cost of the first item -- the material costs are higher so the customer is |
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already getting a price break. I felt that $40 would have been too high a |
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price for a 2-DVD distfiles set so it was priced at $35. |
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|
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The same thing applies to t-shirts, hats, etc. I would like to gradually add |
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$x donations per each item as I begin to figure out what $x should be for |
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each item. |
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|
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Also, I need to add these $x amounts gradually because -- surprise -- there |
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is a lot of expense involved in buying DVD burners, DVD+R's, DVD cases, case |
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badges, etc. and it will likely be about 4 months (if there is some kind of |
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announcement) before I have actually not lost a bunch of money on carrying |
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these DVD products. With a straight % of revenue, my ability to add new |
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products to the store is impacted, and this would be really bad as I think |
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the store has the potential to carry a lot more interesting products, even |
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unique software that I hope to create. |
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|
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This $x per item concept is what rac suggested to me as a workable and |
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practical approach and I think it's the best way to go about things. I |
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really can't do a % of revenue because I don't know what % would be |
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reasonable without causing the store to go under, so I'd have to pick an |
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artificially low number to avoid uncertainty. On the other hand, I know what |
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the profit margins are on specific products so I can figure out dollar |
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amounts per item. |
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|
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> - there is a good track record for this stream of revenues |
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|
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Please remember that the Store has been operating for a long time, and has |
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already paid for signs and equipment for several trade shows, as well as |
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sent several thousands of dollars to developers who were having a hard time |
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financially so they could continue working on Gentoo, paid for hardware for |
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various devs, and paid for airfare, lodging for trade shows (not just for me |
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when I've gone either) as well as many thousands of dollars for legal |
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expenses related to trademark stuff, setting up the NFP foundation and |
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copyright stuff, shipping of hardware. Donations alone wouldn't have been |
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able to do all this. |
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|
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And frankly, it also allowed me to pay the bills, which resulted in me being |
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able to stay with Gentoo long enough to continue working on Gentoo these |
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last couple of years. One of the things I was able to do in this latter |
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period was to get catalyst and stager stuff totally redesigned in python, as |
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well as architect all the templates and mechanisms for what is now called |
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our "release process." So, the store has benefited Gentoo greatly. Of |
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course, I also understand that you want this benefit to continue to the |
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Foundation, not just the pre-Foundation era. But to treat the Store as not |
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having any track record is really quite silly. For several years, it was |
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*THE* source of revenue for Gentoo, and helped Gentoo much more than just |
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pure donations ever would, and this should count for something. Of course |
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all this support comes from our users, but our users give us more support |
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when we give them something they want in return, like a t-shirt or CD set. |
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|
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So it is true store has a long track record of helping Gentoo and even the |
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Foundation (by paying for it to get set up ) -- but does not yet have a |
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track record of sending money directly to the Foundation. Now that the |
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Foundation is finally getting a bank account, this seems like something that |
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can be fixed. Also, it can be fixed *faster* if you let people know about |
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these DVD products, as I have only sold *2* of them so far and I know that |
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more people are interested than that. So this would seem like a good time to |
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continue to help one another, working towards a goal of having a successful |
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store that is a great asset to the Foundation. Keeping me interested in |
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adding new and interesting products to the Store is definitely in the best |
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interest of the Foundation, and I seriously doubt you'll find another Store |
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with the ability to add the type of products that I can. |
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|
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I don't know how many other stores would create their own |
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never-before-released software like the Gentoo DVD, and I have interest in |
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doing more of this kind of thing in the future. I hope to continue doing |
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this, if we keep smiling at each other. I like friendly people. |
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|
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> PS Daniel, I hope I'm not hurting your feelings on this in any way; if I |
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> am, |
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> I would be glad to hear more from you - after all, discussing things is |
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> the best way of action. |
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|
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You're definitely not hurting my feelings. It's refreshing to talk to |
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someone who desires to have a positive, constructive discussion. I really |
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enjoyed (it was literally refreshing) talking to rac about these issues |
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because he was looking for something that would work for everyone, and was |
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sincerely concerned about everyone's needs, not just his own needs. He is |
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also looking out for new products that users might be interested in, by |
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asking questions every now and then in #gentoo. |
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|
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I was really surprised that rac was so interested in helping the Store. When |
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I asked him why he was interested, he explained that he really had no |
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interest in the store itself but said "I want to help make sure that you and |
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your family are fed and I want to help Gentoo." You really can't find fault |
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with his motivation, because he genuinely wanted to help all parties. He |
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wasn't just looking out for his own vested interests. This kind of attitude |
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is contagious because I think it really embodies what Gentoo is all about, |
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which is "help everyone." Help them to do what they want to do. Don't limit |
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your ideas of how Gentoo should be useful to someone, but continue to look |
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for ways to help it be better _for them_. Not just better for you and your |
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idea of what Gentoo is, but for them and their idea of what Gentoo should |
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be. |
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|
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I suspect that some of you have been chatting with Kurt behind the scenes. I |
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had a conversation with Kurt yesterday about these issues and I think it's |
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fair to say that the conversation was not productive. Yet talking to rac for |
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literally 3 pleasant minutes did what 30 minutes of debating with Kurt |
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didn't accomplish, which is finding a solution that works, finding that ever |
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important next step in the right direction. |
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|
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I really am trying to express something more than the fact that Kurt and I |
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have a hard time getting along. You know this already. What I am thinking is |
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that maybe rac would be interested in helping the Store better meet the |
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needs of everyone (that includes me *and* the Foundation) and acting as a |
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kind of official helper/ombudsman in this regard. He has the desire to help, |
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and I get along really well with him. He motivates me to continue pushing |
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forward and improving the store. And frankly, if you need to have a serious |
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discussion with me, you need to make sure that Kurt is *NOT* the one to |
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initiate any new topics with me. Yes, probably didn't exactly volunteer to |
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broach the subject (maybe the only one who was bold enough to actually say |
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something?) but c'mon, get a clue people. That's why I'm suggesting rac as a |
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good liaison person for Foundation/Store issues. I trust him to look out for |
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everyone, I get along with him and hopefully you can also talk to him more |
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easily. |
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|
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Regards, |
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|
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Daniel |
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|
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|
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|
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|
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|
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-- |
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gentoo-trustees@g.o mailing list |