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List Archive: gentoo-trustees
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To: gentoo-trustees@g.o
From: Corey Shields <cshields@g.o>
Subject: Re: store and foundation..
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:07:49 -0500
drobbins wrote:

>If it's offensive to you, then talk to the other trustees about it. Probably
>best to use the secret, private trustees alias where most of the trustee
>communication goes on these days. Sheesh. Open communication? Are you sure
>about that? I have not seen any. I am not Dr. Phil so I'll avoid jumping
>into the middle of this communication issue. It's not my responsibility or
>place to fix it. Now that you know that the problem exists, you can try to
>fix it if you want.
I thought I -was- trying..  maybe it wasn't that obvious.  I'll try 
harder.  As for the other trustees about it, they are not making any 
accusations that I have seen so I haven't talked to them about it (they 
are reading this so are free to speak up).

To me, your statement sounded like an accusation that Kurt had something 
going on behind the scenes, like benefitting from Gentoo or something.  
I don't believe this is the case, and why I took offense to it.  Your 
further statements clear up those accusations a bit for me.


>I was working with Kurt because he controls infrastructure, he controls
>adverstising, and from personal experience I know that nothing happens in
>these areas at all unless Kurt is OK with it. That is just standard
>operating procedure on this project. Things that get his approval happen
>very quickly, and things that don't get held up in discussion for months of
>consensus-building, group-thought and over-analysis. Things happen easily
>for friends of his, but do not happen easily for others. Whether or not that
>is reality (I do not want to start another debate about that,) this is the
>very real impression I have of how this project operates, both when I was on
>this project and after I resigned. For what it's worth, I am also *not the
>only person* with this impression. There are other Gentoo developers who
>have reached this impression independently, though their own independent
>personal experiences. They have posted to Gentoo-dev about it. This should
>not be news to you.
Yeah, I can't argue this..  But, if you are talking about issues dealing 
with the Store's relationship to the Foundation, then maybe that should 
have gone to the foundation as a group instead of to Kurt.

>The thing I am comfortable saying without touching on intra-trustee issues
>-- I'm not comfortable giving Kurt information because it gives him
>additional things to discuss for months and months to hold up important
>decisions. If you have not experienced this, then be glad you're his friend!
>It's not nearly as pleasant for those of us who aren't.
I don't know what there is to hide here..  if you are talking about the 
suggestions I made previously about Store reports, how much the NFP is 
costing, etc..   I don't see how that information could be used to hold 
stuff up.  In my mind the lack of it would do just that.

>I hope I have been "open" enough without "opening" up additional cans of
>worms. I'm also hoping that we're able to make the transition from worms to
>gummi worms at some point in the future.
Sure, I hope so as well.   Trying to be neutral here, as I still 
consider you both friends, if you both want to transition from this, 
then you both will have to put the past behind you and move on.  This 
hasn't -truly- happened, but rather problems build upon previous 
problems. You mentioned trying to put the past behind you before in the 
paragraph I snipped (for the length of this msg), but then later in the 
e-mail you drew on past experiences.  This has happened on both ends of 
the issue this time and in times past..

Whether you both work it out or not, that's up to you..  What does 
concern me is letting one person-person conflict disrupt the work 
between the store and the foundation.  If we all had to get along well 
with everyone else on the development team in order to do out work, 
Gentoo wouldn't exist.  That's sad, yes, but true.  I would like to see 
the work go forward despite any disagreements, and as far as my 
suggestions yesterday, that should be possible.



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RE: store and foundation..
-- drobbins
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