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The reason this question is so hard to answer is because it is not a |
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technical question, it is a moral and ethical one. The links presented |
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start to approach the issue being discussed in this light but do not |
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entirely accept the right question. I suspect this is because it seems |
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rather absurd. |
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|
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We shall analyze some popular responses in this light. |
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|
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Systemd is easy to work around! |
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http://www.vitavonni.de/blog/201410/2014102101-avoiding-systemd.html |
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except, |
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https://lobste.rs/s/y5skqt/avoiding_systemd_isn_t_hard/comments/eayjn3#c_eayjn3 |
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but http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html gives some |
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decent counterpoints, |
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which http://lwn.net/Articles/619992/ either supports or is ambivalent |
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about. |
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|
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They all basically boil down to "someone is doing the work, and if it is a |
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better way to do it it will be okay." Except this isn't true. The proof by |
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contradiction is exceptionally simple: |
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|
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If this was a just world, Lennart's pants would be on fire. |
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Lennart's pants are not on fire. |
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Therefore, this is not a just world, and justice must be manufactured. |
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|
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You might ask why his pants (and the pants of most systemd supporters) |
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would be on fire. Well, |
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https://pappp.net/?p=969 clearly explains how FLOS is not UNIX, and |
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the easy counterpoints get thoroughly trashed |
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http://lwn.net/Articles/440843/, and |
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http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/11/20/systemd-redux/ here's a guy agreeing |
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and suggesting everyone hit the big red EJECT. |
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|
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Why UNIX? Well, because that's just a concise, easy-to-phrase proxy for the |
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deeper issue of |
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https://pay.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2k5b7e/the_concern_isnt_that_systemd_itself_isnt/ |
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(aside: read the C++ in the kernel tangent if you are not familiar, it |
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seems to mirror this argument taking place and notably, Linus has chosen a |
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side on that one!) |
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which is echoed here http://lwn.net/Articles/440843/ |
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and here http://lwn.net/Articles/576078/ |
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and here http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ (start with |
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unix philosophy) |
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and here http://lwn.net/Articles/494605/. |
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|
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Once upon a time I met a very masterful troll who got me to say precisely |
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what I needed to say precisely when I did not want to say it. What he got |
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me to say was: |
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>Oct 27 06:05:30 <*******> I study the orthodoxy consistently[sic] |
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>Oct 27 06:05:38 <R0b0t1`> To find its flaws, yes |
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|
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So did Lennart &co. study the orthodox to learn from its failures? Did they |
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construct a conservative (re)implementation of the software exhibiting |
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those failures? It has been shown and continues to be shown that: no, they |
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are flying by the seat of their pants. A solution could have been |
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constructed which requires far less labor. Not only far less of *their* |
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labor, but far less labor for *everyone else* using a *nix. But they did |
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not thoroughly investigate such avenues, even within their |
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reimplementation! They are recreating bugs! It is impossible for them to |
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claim they are doing it over to do it right, as they have already failed at |
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that purpose. |
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|
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They have been shown to have wasted effort and continue to do so. When |
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labor is scarce, that is the most unethical action one can undertake. |
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|
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|
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On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Marc Joliet <marcec@×××.de> wrote: |
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|
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> Am Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:32:16 -0600 |
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> schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@×××××.com>: |
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> |
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> [...] |
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> > I highly recommend the article John Corbet wrote for LWN a week ago: |
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> > |
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> > http://lwn.net/Articles/619992/ |
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> [...] |
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> |
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> Thanks for the link, it was a good read. |
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> |
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> FWIW, I found this linked in one of the comments: |
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> |
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> http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/ |
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> |
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> Both articles echo thoughts that I have more and more with every |
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> "discussion" |
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> regarding systemd. |
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> |
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> My takeaway is similar to that of the lwn.net article (that is, both |
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> sides are |
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> being unnecessarily thick-headed), and find it remarkable how much I |
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> recognise |
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> from "discussions" here on gentoo-user (in contrast, gentoo-amd64 has been |
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> much |
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> more level-headed). However, I disagree with with the categorisation at |
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> the |
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> end, mainly because I hate it when people have to sort each other into |
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> "camps", |
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> so that they know who to hate and who to like (which isn't the author's |
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> fault, |
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> I think, politicised discussions tend to go that way as they intensify), |
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> but |
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> also because I think it is too strict and doesn't account for overlap (for |
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> myself I see reasons for both being and not being in either group). |
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> |
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> Greetings |
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> -- |
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> Marc Joliet |
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> -- |
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> "People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we |
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> don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup |
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> |