Re: [gentoo-user] CD ROM does not play audio CD's

[b.n.]

Joerg Schilling ha scritto:
>> No, this is your assumption. Mine is the opposite - as I see it, the
>> question is very real and the author admitted that he found those URLs
>> using Google which implies he had nothing to do them.
>
> Could you explain me why he did not read the information on the cdrtools
> web page to get the information?

Read it (admittedly, read mostly the google cache because berlios.de 
seems slow/unreachable now).

It just says "I choose CDDL because it's more free than GPL" and stuff 
like that. This is better than the complete nothing we had before, but 
it is still quite obscure.

I gave a (quick) look at the CDDL and on one side I feel sympathetic 
with you (it seems the incompatibility claimed by Debian is extremly 
technical and doesn't seem to pose peculiar problems) but on the other 
side it seems CDDL and GPL are similar enough that I see no strong 
reason to change license.

- Why is it in your opinion more free, in a few words?
- Why did you prefer to release it CDDL and see people go berserk (right 
or wrong they are, it doesn't count here) instead of keeping it GPL and 
let everyone live peacefully? In other words: why is CDDL *so important* 
to you that you prefer to see bad forks of your software pop out instead 
of having a compromise about licenses and let your software live happily?


>>> What do you call "a modified CDDL license" and why do you believe
>>> there is "a modified CDDL license"?
>>
>> Answering the question with question? (obviously I can do that too :D)
>
> It makes no sense to answer questions if the question contains a hint for a
> missunderstanding.

Again, you don't understand the purpose of *human communication*. 
Communication is exactly made to iron out misunderstandings. 
Communicating with people that are already on your side/already 
understand what you're going to say *makes no sense*.

>> First it would be interesting, second more effective for your cause and
>> third it would hopefully cease your current practice to hijack every
>> optical media related thread on this list and send spam that advertises
>> your product (cdrtools).
>
> If you believe this, then we need to stop this thread immediately.
>
> Every such thread on this list that was based on Bugs introduced by the people
> who "created" wodim.
>
>> I mean no offense, but allow me to be blunt. This practice of yours
>> is not only extremely annoying, but it is also very unwise because it
>> backfires - instead of making people understand your problem, now you
>> have a list of annoyed Gentoo fans.
>
> Do you like to tell me that Gentoo users are not interested to know why they
> have problems with CD/DVD writing?
> Do you like to tell me that nobody is interested in a simple fix?

Surely to let people aware of the cdrkit/cdrtools split and that 
cdrtools can fix what's made by cdrkit is useful.
But it seems there is a tendency to make things degenerate into a 
constant "either with me or against me!" threading, and your "conspiracy 
theory" attitude does not help.


You tell on the webpage that Debian people started attack you before the 
licence change. No link, for what I can see at a glance, is provided to 
examples of these attacks (if I'm wrong, please correct me).
No reason is given for those attacks (again, if I'm wrong,etc.).

Now, it is possible that Debian has been possessed by $EVIL_DEITY and 
that all those people are dedicating their life to annoy poor old Joerg.

Bear with me however if I assign to that quite tiny odds.

What I think is that those people were honestly concerned for some 
(maybe stupid, maybe real) reason. Why should one randomly begin to 
attack randomly a good developer releasing essential software? Why 
should one go so long to fork such hard software, if this one does not 
sincerely believe there is a reason to embark on such an adventure? You 
may disagree with them, but thinking that they're doing all that just 
because of a personaly conspiracy against you and cdrtools seems a bit a 
delusion.

Here's what I'd write on your webpage if I was you:

"Q: Why is there a fork of cdrtools?
A: In 2004, a discussion arose with Debian developers around $ISSUE 
(see *here*) and, later, around licensing terms (see *here*). Basically 
there is a disagreement between us on the possibility to relicense [...] 
Unfortunately, despite long and bitter discussion, no compromise had 
been reached and they decided to release a supposedly "more free" fork, 
called cdrkit. I personally disagree completely (CDDL is in my opinion 
more free than GPL), but that's their choice.

Q: Is there a reason to use cdrtools instead of forks?
A: Yes. cdrkit is less updated (see cdrkit activity *here* vs cdrtools 
activity *here*) and more buggy (see *here* for a comparison of cdrkit 
bugs vs cdrtools bugs). So, I strongly advice to use the original 
cdrtools instead of the forks. Unfortunately, many Linux distribution 
choose to follow Debian reasoning on licences and distribute cdrkit 
instead of cdrtools. A notable exception is Gentoo."

Practically the same stuff, but no conspiracy theory wording. It would 
make you look like more of a reasonable person. What do you think?

m.
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