Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo's future directtion ?

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 7:13 PM,  <wireless@×××××××××××.com> wrote:
> On 11/21/14 17:10, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 5:40 PM,  <wireless@×××××××××××.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting perspective that I had not considered... still, I think there
>>> is
>>> more at play here. It sounds as if a few "chosen" old guard
>>> are going to kick out more of the progressive and newer devs
>>> so that  these few. control the core distro. That way they can agree
>>> and do what they want.
>>
>>
>> Where are you getting this stuff?  People seem to talk about "old
>> guard" Gentoo devs blocking contributions, but the very few times
>> anything remotely resembling this gets pointed out the Council has
>> stepped in to remove obstructions.
>>
>
> I have repetitively ask why java is treated like a second class citizen here
> at gentoo. Is anyone close any of those old deprecated java bugs?
>
> I just wonder why the rank and file devs do not like java?
> Why the devs do not celebrate Java?

If nobody is maintaining Java it is because nobody wants to maintain
Java.  You suggested that established developers were preventing new
ones from doing some things.  The problem with Java is that there
simply aren't that many developers interested in it at all.

Gentoo devs work on whatever they want to work on.  They aren't paid employees.


> I just like to wrap all of this in a conspiracy flavouring; hopefully some
> devs will jump into java, fix it up and let's give it a proper place in the
> gentoo structure? What if somebody wants to develop a PM or PMS using java
> on gentoo. You think that person would receive a 'warm welcome' as in lots
> of help, code snippets and partners among the gentoo elites?

If you want to write a java PM just do it.  You seem to be complaining
that nobody is writing one for you.  I'm sure there are plenty of
Gentoo devs and non-devs who would be happy to talk to you about
writing one if you're willing to pay them for their time.  Otherwise,
this is a volunteer effort and people work on what they want to work
on.

That isn't some kind of evil conspiracy.  Nobody is going to prevent a
Gentoo developer from putting a java-based package manager in the tree
as long as it doesn't contain security bugs/etc.  They may or may not
get any help with doing it, and that just reflects that people work on
what they want to.

>
> How does your council feel about that? How many council member have added
> java packages or closed java bugs? Sure they have work on other things they
> do not like, but hell no to java?  How about a 'java week" where the
> brightest java devs devote just one week to java? (gnashing of teeth?).

Well, I can speak only for myself (as a Council member).  I've never
worked on java packages or closed java bugs (well, maybe I've done a
stable request or two as part of an arch team, but that isn't really
what you're talking about).

Like most other devs I work on the things that interest me or which I
care about.  For the most part, java is not among them, though I do
maintain the android sdk which is java-based.

> How about authorizing a few dozen folks to close java bugs. Why
> do you have to be a dev to close bugs in BGO?

So, first you'll need to find a few dozen folks who are interested in
closing java bugs.  Second, you don't have to be a dev to close bugs
in BGO, but you do need to be given access, and that does mean that
you'll have to work with somebody with some kind of guidelines around
what you'll be doing.  Arch testers have editbugs privs and they
aren't devs, for example, but they follow rules like everybody else.

> It sure looks like  a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like a duck
> and I believe I hear quacking from this latest wacky (dev) idea to move most
> devs and most packages to second class status; as pure  quackery. Medically,
> from a medical dictionary that is about 50 years old, the
> most correct diagnostic is "imbecilic".

Well, go take that up with the dev proposing this.  I'm not suggesting
that anything should be excluded from the main tree, and so far I've
only seen a single Gentoo dev suggest that.  I do support making it
easier to maintain stuff outside the tree.

Devs are allowed to post on the lists.  When one dev posts an idea
that doesn't mean that the entire distribution is going to reverse
directions.

>
> I think that java and clustering on gentoo are dying, because the leadership
> environment makes it difficult for them to proper. How many java bugs have
> you close, during 2014?

Zero.  That's about as many as I'm likely to close in 2015.  Nobody in
the Gentoo leadership is keeping anybody from closing Java bugs.
There just aren't that many devs interested in working on them.

If you want to work on them, you might consider becoming a dev, or
working on them in an overlay (which is a good way to become a dev,
actually).

You seem to be under the impression that Gentoo devs work on things
that the Gentoo leadership tells them to work on.  That is hardly the
case, many of our most important packages are also the least
maintained, because devs work on what they work on, and not on the
stuff the leadership considers important.  If a Gentoo developer
wanted to work on Java the leadership wouldn't interfere with that
just as they didn't interfere with a couple of devs deciding to fork
udev.

--
Rich