Gentoo Archives: www-redesign

From: mushroomblue <mushroomblue@××××××××××.net>
To: www-redesign@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [www-redesign] Update of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:04:57
Message-Id: 1132729481.22588.0.camel@zim.mushroomblue.org
In Reply to: [www-redesign] Update of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org by Curtis Napier
other than making the cell that contains the "donate" button the same
width as the advertisement column, it looks MUCH better.

blue ribbon. 


On Wed, 2005-11-23 at 01:40 -0500, Curtis Napier wrote:
> First of all, thank you everyone for all the feedback. Your input is > important and greatly appreciated. > > I should have said that the last update was not complete as far as > design was concerned. I was mainly looking for accessibility and > rendering issues on as many browsers/OS's as possible. I got that > feedback and fixed the issues that came up. I also implemented the rest > of the design so it should now be more visually appealing and better > match Aarons reference design. I took into consideration all of the > suggestions that were submitted and now ask for additional feedback to > ensure that my changes didn't introduce any additional > rendering/accessibility bugs and that the design is acceptable to as > many people as possible. > > If there are no more outstanding issues reported I will submit this > current layout for approval. > > > Questions to some of the answers and suggestions that were brought up: > > The artwork is all part of the winning design. Any issues with the > infinity symbol should have been addressed a year ago. > > I am not the designer of this site. I am merely implementing it in the > XSL backend. I am the only person working on this and I am the > designated official developer, the project lead is Swift and his role is > to offer advice, enforce design policy and generally oversee my actions > and help me with internal gentoo policies and procedures. The project is > actually owned by Infra and they (they == infra leads which is klieber > and ramereth as far as I know), along with Swift, have the final say on > everything. I welcome any and all patches that you are willing to > submit. All submissions will be evaluated on a case by case basis. > > Aarons reference design at www.aaronshi.com/gentoo/ is exactly that: A > reference. In it's current form it differs from his original submission > which was the winning entry and should not be considered as anything > else but a reference. I tried to stick to that design as much as > possible but some things were simply not possible. > > Aarons design uses a smaller default font, that is not acceptable from > an accessibility POV. The main font is at 1em and all cursory fonts > multipliers of 1em. The main font will remain at 1em which is the > standard for the accessibility guidelines. If you don't like the > standard font size every single graphical browser offers a font zoom > capability, use it. > > Aarons use of a smaller font allows more information to appear on the > page. This is an illusion of size. If you have your browser window set > to 800x600 or smaller the jumpads disappear and the page has to be > scrolled to see them no matter how big/small the font is. If you enlarge > the font on Aarons reference to the standard 1em the jumppads disappear > and the page must be scrolled anyway so this point is moot. > > Purple background with yellow text is hideous. Not going to happen. > > The "Locator" would require rewrites of not only the XSL but also the > actual xml files and is outside the scope of this project. Touching any > xml content file is strictly off limits, all existing xml should be > backwards compatible with the new design. This point is not debatable. > Use of a database would make this task easier while allowing backwards > compatibility but it will have to wait for a future update to the site > to be implemented. > > I actually implemented a search that used google much like the example > that was posted here. The search was discussed at length with the > project lead and it was decided that using a third party search engine > such as google was unacceptable. As Lance said, this will have to be > coordinated with infra at a later date. Gentoo is a not-for-profit but, > unfortunetly, it is the wrong kind of non-profit so Google will not > sponsor us. > > The contents of the uppermost menu are to sites that are outside the > www.gentoo.org website. They will stay in this location. They are green > to contrast with the purple background to ensure that colorblind and > other visually impaired people can see it. Green is the compliment to > purple so I am baffled that people think the combination is not > attractive. In Aarons preview the light purple color of these links is > not visible to color blind individuals thus it is unacceptable. This > color will not change. > > The grey menu should contain links that would be used in order of a new > user and that highlight the main parts of the site. I did this quickly > to have something there to look at. I didn't notice any good suggestions > to replace what is there. If you have suggestions please send them. The > same goes for the wording in the purple boxes, if you don't like what > they say submit a suggestion for each. Suggestions of "I don't like it > you should change it" that don't include a clearly worded replacement > will be ignored. The donate box is here to stay until the search > function is implemented. > > Graphics should be implemented in the CSS as much as possible to aid > future maintenance (the xsl templates are huge and not easy to maintain. > The least amount of editing of these files as possible is one of the > major goals). In text browsers that can handle graphics but don't > support CSS the upper left logo (which is a background image so it can > be put in the css) will not appear but will leave space for the missing > background image. I can't figure out a way around this. If you have a > suggestion I would appreciate it. > > Horizontal scrolling of the entire page when a code listing is wider > than the page only happens in IE. All other browsers understand the CSS > scroll:auto tag and will only scroll the actual code listing. The same > applies to inline images within the page contents. IE is broken but I > did everything I could to make it behave the same as other browsers. > This is one issue that IE is simply broken on and there is nothing I can > do to fix that. Javascript fixes are available but the use of Javascript > is strictly forbidden. Javascript is not debatable. > > Redundant links to important pages such as the Handbook and Documention > only serve to make them easier for a user to locate. They will remain > for the time being unless someone can come up with a good reason to > remove them other than "I don't like it". > > The <hr /> tags in the Handbook navigation are contained within the > handbook xsl template. Touching that file is outside my scope. > > The redesign test site is not a full mirror. I added the security index > page so we could see what it looks like. > > The site is not XHTML it is HTML-4.01 Transitional and it passes the w3c > validator. Manually overriding HTML-4.01 Transitional in the w3c > validator is not required and any errors that it reports if you do this > will not be addressed. If you can come up with a good technical reason > why doing this would benefit anyone I will address it. > > Navigation and useability studies are beyond my scope. These issues > should have been addressed a year ago. > > The left hand navigation column is dead. No amount of beating this dead > horse will resurrect it. The jumppads will remain at the bottom and > appear on all non-documentation pages so that those links are accessible > as much as possible. > > <base href> is not needed for this site to function properly. If you > want to save the page locally you are free to do so and add the tag > yourself for your local copy. > > The CSS is only 12k. Why would shaving 4k off of it to make it 8k make a > difference to anyone? > > The site is dynamically generated with XSL/XML all the pages end in > .xml. There are no plans to change it to .xhtml now or in the future. > > The image on the about page is within the content xml file and not > within the XSL template. Touching about.xml or any other xml content > file is outside my scope. > > GLEP 10 is outside my scope. > > The jumppads have alt text. They always have. They pop up as tool tips > on every browser I have tested. If they aren't for you please submit > your browser version and OS and I will look into it. > > The blue text that represents code was darkened for accessibility > issues. It will not change. > > In Aarons preview the search box and the ads column are placed with a > Position:absolute and has it's size set. At resolutions below 800x600 > this makes the ads overlap the content and the search box overlap the > box to the left on every browser. When content is scarce the ads overlap > the footer. This is not fixable given the current state of css support > in the various browsers. After many many many long hours of research and > experimentation I decided that we would have to resort to a table for > the ads column and include the search (now donate) box within the div > that contains the four purple boxes with a % width to fix this issue. I > lowered the % width of the donate box and increased the others to bring > it more inline with Aarons original design. It's not perfect but it's > close enough. > > Accessibilty guidelines say that all text links should be underlined. I > made an exception for the grey menu bar for aesthetic purposes but will > not make an exception for any other links. > > gentoo.org and all domains owned by the Gentoo Foundation should render > correctly in all browsers that are still in general use. IE5 on the mac > is still a valid browser and will be supported as much as possible. > > Summary and authors are important and should be prominently displayed > before the actual content. On the current design they are on the right > in a tiny column that wraps every two words. This is unacceptable. These > items will stay at the top for now unless someone can come up with a > place to put them that makes sense, looks good, allows the summary to be > seen on top and not below the content (because a summary should be above > the content otherwise why have a summary if you have to scroll past the > content to see it?). The handbook is the only page that has a large list > of authors and authors only appear on the first page so this should not > be a problem. > > > > Here is a list of items that have changed since my last post: > > *menu code was changed from a floated block list to a simple inline div > with non-breaking spaces. This should fix the IE5 on Mac issue. > > *Background color for content was made light grey with black text for > better visibility of the text. Bright monitors should no longer be a > problem. > > *background color of the ads was made darker to contrast with the > content area. Decorative header was added. > > *white space was collapsed as much as possible. > > *all extraneous information and decorative news headers were removed > from the front page to help readability and to bring focus to the > information. This includes the cow image and text. Overwhelming amounts > of information on the front page should no longer be a problem. This > also brings the jumppads closer to the top so new users will be better > able to spot them. > > *table headers were centered and data cells left justified. > > *table borders are now collapsed and only 1px thick. They are no longer > ugly. > > *removed the BOLD from the design credit in the footer. This wasn't > supposed to be BOLD in the first place, probably a mistake on my part. > > *The purple boxes below the grey menu bar now only appear on the main index. > > *news poster date and submitter color changed to match Aarons design > > *added a filter that removes the author and date if they are missing or > script generated. > > *removed redundant doc title > > *removed the donation button image and replaced it with a simple button.
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