1 |
The lack of adequate margins for content and the adbar is visually |
2 |
appalling. We might as well remove all evidence of space such that all text |
3 |
and images are touching all other elements, edges, containers and each other |
4 |
so that we maximize screen estate and return-per-square-inch if that's the |
5 |
(wrong) direction we're going. =( |
6 |
|
7 |
There are only a few occasions that warrant margin minimization, e.g. |
8 |
printing borderless photos on paper. The standard rule of thumb for text on |
9 |
screen is 0.5 inches (apparent). At least line up the left edge of the |
10 |
content text with the Gentoo logo. If you do, you'll notice that the Gentoo |
11 |
logo is lined up with the text and lined up with the credit logo at the |
12 |
bottom (the way it's intended). From there, logic dictates that whatever |
13 |
margin's on the left should be mirrored on the right (unless you're |
14 |
Picasso). Margin on top and bottom should be at least as large as the ones |
15 |
on the side. As for the adbar, all I can say is, you fit the furniture into |
16 |
the house, not the house onto the furniture. Ads are secondary or way down |
17 |
the list, why are we compromising the main objectives of the site over |
18 |
sub-sub-sub items? |
19 |
|
20 |
Turning margins back on would be a good idea... ;) |
21 |
|
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|
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P.S. Might also be a good idea to strategically position (code/structure |
24 |
wise) the nav/content/ad/footer/etc. areas. To see what I mean, try viewing |
25 |
the reference pages (i.e. main and guidepage) in links/lynx. Positioning in |
26 |
graphical browsers should be determined via CSS, while text browsers that |
27 |
can't do CSS will still render the page in a logical layout. The current |
28 |
site at wwwredesign when viewed through a text browser such as Links, the |
29 |
main page starts with navigation (ok), then the 4 boxes and search (but no |
30 |
headings so they look like a giant run on), then a half page of ads, then |
31 |
content (not labelled as news / lack of heading), then jump pads (all 3 |
32 |
appears as 1 giant list with no headings/divisions). |
33 |
|
34 |
Sven mentioned something about text browsers links/lynx and I think he's |
35 |
absolutely right in that they should not be forgotten. Don't know what the |
36 |
current LiveCD comes with, but the ones I've had only had text-only links |
37 |
and I remember how hard it was to use the old Gentoo site while I was |
38 |
browsing the installations docs etc. E.g. the commands and crucial steps |
39 |
are not highlighted in anyway and appears as normal text within a sentence |
40 |
or due to spacing issues appear as part of a paragraph. I remember I've |
41 |
wasted a lot of time when important things were overlooked. |
42 |
|
43 |
In this new site, I tried to make it text-only friendly, hence the |
44 |
deprecated <b> and <i> tags (which I used CSS to cancel out for modern |
45 |
browsers), because whatever Links I had (0.9.4?) only lighted those tags |
46 |
(<b> was white and <i> was teal - couldn't specify these values, <a> was |
47 |
specified fuscia - closest to purple that Links could recognize - and stands |
48 |
out a whole lot too). While it may seem superflous for modern browsers, it |
49 |
doesn't affect them in any way at all, while on the other hand it |
50 |
significantly enhances the browsing experience for text-only browsers. I |
51 |
noticed that a few text-friendly artifacts were left behind when all the |
52 |
text-friendly features were stripped during implementation, if we're |
53 |
disregarding text browsers we should remove those artifacts as to not |
54 |
confuse anyone. E.g. the ", Gentoo's main site" bit which was used to |
55 |
describe the site indicator (which now no longer functions/appears as |
56 |
originally intend), and makes no sense as it current appears at wwwredesign. |
57 |
|
58 |
|
59 |
The search box seems a little incomplete without a "Go"/"Find" button. |
60 |
Personally, I don't really care for such a button, but how many |
61 |
(well-designed) sites with a search function do you find without a |
62 |
complementary "Go" button of some sort? Again, we're trying to be intuitive |
63 |
since empirical evidence suggests that such buttons haven't become obsolete |
64 |
because they do add value, i.e. there are people who'll freak out without |
65 |
them. |
66 |
|
67 |
Aaron |
68 |
|
69 |
|
70 |
> -----Original Message----- |
71 |
> From: Curtis Napier [mailto:curtis119@g.o] |
72 |
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 6:12 PM |
73 |
> To: www-redesign@l.g.o |
74 |
> Subject: Re: [www-redesign] status of http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org |
75 |
> |
76 |
> > Xavier Neys wrote: |
77 |
> > |
78 |
> >> Curtis Napier wrote: |
79 |
> >> |
80 |
> >>> Xavier Neys wrote: |
81 |
> >>> |
82 |
> >>>> Links to GWN RSS feeds are not properly displayed: |
83 |
> >>>> http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/gwn.xml |
84 |
> >>>> http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/gwn.xml |
85 |
> >>> |
86 |
> >>> |
87 |
> >>> I forgot to copy over the image. fixed. |
88 |
> >> |
89 |
> >> |
90 |
> >> The xml image is underlined and it's darn ugly IMHO. |
91 |
> > |
92 |
> > |
93 |
> > It's even worse on printable pages: |
94 |
> > http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/gwn.xml?style=printable |
95 |
> |
96 |
> Is it OK now? |
97 |
> |
98 |
> > Xavier Neys wrote: |
99 |
> > |
100 |
> > I prefer a list of links to older news just like on the |
101 |
> current site, |
102 |
> > but obviously not crammed in the left margin anymore. |
103 |
> > I you choose the "more news" approach, fair enough, but why use an |
104 |
> > extra /main/en/morenews.xml file with an extra ID that has to be |
105 |
> > defined in the DTD even though those IDs are not use |
106 |
> anymore and extra |
107 |
> > logic in the xsl? |
108 |
> > All you need is a "?newsitemcount=20" link. |
109 |
> > |
110 |
> |
111 |
> I went with the newsitemcount solution. Why didn't I think of |
112 |
> that? Oh well, it's fixed now. |
113 |
> |
114 |
> >> |
115 |
> >> 2. This design/layout does not lend itself very well to |
116 |
> font resizing. |
117 |
> > |
118 |
> > |
119 |
> > Fair enough. It feels weird that some much emphasis has been put on |
120 |
> > accessibility but a site that does not allow |
121 |
> visually-impaired users |
122 |
> > to grow their fonts is OK. |
123 |
> > |
124 |
> |
125 |
> I'm working on this one. I think after the past year of this |
126 |
> I have started to lose sight of a few major principals and |
127 |
> have gotten sidetracked. I stepped back today and really |
128 |
> looked at everything and I made some major changes to the |
129 |
> underlying structure in the content area that will improve |
130 |
> the way it handles increased font sizes/small windows. |
131 |
> I'm still working on the menu but I should have it done by tomorrow. |
132 |
> |
133 |
> More about this at the end of this mail. |
134 |
> |
135 |
> >> 4.2 The nav bar is within the /xsl/handbook.xsl file. I |
136 |
> was told not |
137 |
> >> to touch that file. I take your suggestion to change the |
138 |
> nav bar as |
139 |
> >> permission to touch it now. Swift, if you still want me to |
140 |
> not touch |
141 |
> >> the handbook let me know and I'll drop in the unchanged |
142 |
> one. I have |
143 |
> >> started experimenting with how to make that nav bar |
144 |
> better, if anyone |
145 |
> >> has any ideas let me know. |
146 |
> > |
147 |
> > |
148 |
> > Improving could be done, simply removing the <hr>'s is not |
149 |
> an improvement. |
150 |
> > Anyway, this should not be a requirement to more on with |
151 |
> this project IMO. |
152 |
> > |
153 |
> |
154 |
> I'm still working on the handbook menu, anybody have any |
155 |
> ideas? I'm going to try the green arrows somehow or other |
156 |
> unless someone can come up with something better. |
157 |
> |
158 |
> |
159 |
> > 2nd & 3rd level title look better. |
160 |
> > I can't say as much of the top titles :( |
161 |
> > |
162 |
> |
163 |
> How are the titles now? |
164 |
> |
165 |
> > BTW, numbered chapters in the handbook index would be better IMO |
166 |
> > (http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml) |
167 |
> > |
168 |
> > Besides, guides start with an unordered list, book chapters |
169 |
> start with |
170 |
> > a numbered list. Neither has any "Content" title. |
171 |
> > |
172 |
> |
173 |
> I made all the content lists numbered/lettered and added |
174 |
> "Content:" to them. Look at the Handbook (the main handbook |
175 |
> index AND the content) and a guide and see what you think. Is |
176 |
> this good? |
177 |
> |
178 |
> ------------------------------------- |
179 |
> |
180 |
> I made a major change to the content area. I did this to |
181 |
> address the problem of "Dead Space" under the ad bar that |
182 |
> several people have complained about and to help make the |
183 |
> site degrade properly when fonts are increased or the window is small. |
184 |
> |
185 |
> Doing this caused a problem with block items overlapping the |
186 |
> ads. This is because in order to get text to wrap under it |
187 |
> (ad bar) I had to float it instead of absolutely positioning |
188 |
> it. Items like: warning, important, note and codetables had |
189 |
> to change the way the title is done from a div to a span to |
190 |
> keep the background color from stretching across the page and |
191 |
> overlapping the ads. The bottom part of them is now a <p> |
192 |
> instead of a div for the same reason. The header will now |
193 |
> only have a colored background directly under the text |
194 |
> instead of a banner that goes across the page. Other than |
195 |
> that it still looks the same. |
196 |
> |
197 |
> Look for this in the next few days: I'm going to be making a |
198 |
> change to the way the menu works (not the way it looks, only |
199 |
> the HTML that renders it). The change will make it degrade |
200 |
> more gracefully with larger fonts or in small windows. As |
201 |
> usual IE is giving me lots of headaches or I would already |
202 |
> have it done. |
203 |
> |
204 |
> Thanks for bringing this up neysx. You are right, if I am |
205 |
> going to focus on accessibility I need to apply it everywhere |
206 |
> and not selectivly. |
207 |
> |
208 |
> It's all coming together now thanks to the excellent |
209 |
> feedback. Keep it coming people! :-) |
210 |
> |
211 |
> -Curtis |
212 |
> -- |
213 |
> www-redesign@g.o mailing list |
214 |
> |
215 |
> |
216 |
> |
217 |
|
218 |
-- |
219 |
www-redesign@g.o mailing list |