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List Archive: www-redesign
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To: <www-redesign@g.o>
From: "Aaron Shi" <aaron@...>
Subject: Update: August 07, 2005
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:45:09 -0700
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Hi 
all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Time is becoming 
extra rare these days, so I'll make this quick.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Concerns regarding 
long author list have been addressed with this new update.&nbsp; The author list 
is moved to the "Sidebar" along with the document action buttons.&nbsp; As a 
result, long author lists now display fine, but it is not displayed when printed 
because it no longer follows the document "flow" -- which is fine as it wouldn't 
make sense to have 25% of the page width used by credits when printed 
anyway.&nbsp; The authors are credited online where the individual must've first 
visited before printing the page.&nbsp; In the case of a 1 document = 1 webpage 
type exclusively made for printing, then having all the authors at the top would 
be fine...almost like a book.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Are there any other 
ways to do this?&nbsp; Throw out some ideas.&nbsp; Someone mentioned grouping 
the contributors under categories e.g. author, reviewer, etc., and someone 
mentioned hiding it using scripts.&nbsp; This is a common practice these days 
with Javascript/CSS</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005>.&nbsp; I did not do this as it concerns credits and 
the&nbsp;default&nbsp;state is&nbsp;to hide the info, hence contributors are not 
being&nbsp;given due credit when users disable their scripting capabilities. I'd 
like to explore this avenue but don't want to waste time if most disapproves the 
method.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT><FONT 
face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>By some pure luck (I had no 
idea this existed), I stumbled upon the test server at <A 
href="http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/">http://wwwredesign.gentoo.org/</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Looks like it's in 
progress, but I hope when it's done it'll look more like the reference pages I 
provided. =D&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Quirks are common 
place when integration takes place, but in this case the design appears to be 
completely *destroyed.*&nbsp; At this point, integrators shouldn't&nbsp;be 
changing the CSS or the basic HTML structure (except for quirk squashing 
purposes).&nbsp; I am no longer adding "features" either, just addressing 
concerns in this mailing list.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>With regards to 
moving&nbsp;the sitemap link in the upper right corner,&nbsp;I have to voice 
some usability implications of removing it.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial 
size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Just briefly, it is the ONLY way to return 
to the root level of a *particular* Gentoo site (i.e. packages.gentoo.org, 
forums.gentoo.org, etc. etc.).&nbsp;&nbsp;It also indicates to users what site 
they're on --&nbsp;combined with the breadcrumbs they allow users to navigate to 
the exact page without URL bar (i.e. in a magazine screenshot) or when the print 
URL footer is cut off.&nbsp; Clicking the Gentoo logo will return you to <A 
href="http://www.gentoo.org">www.gentoo.org</A>, but not to the homepages of the 
other "sites."&nbsp; You could change the Gentoo logo to point to the homepages 
of the other sites, but then it'll be inconsistent and this inconsistency is not 
indicated to the user (i.e. the user doesn't know that the target page has 
changed).&nbsp; The rule of thumb is if the site's primary navigation is 
horizontal then the sitemap should be listed in the footer of the page if there 
isn't space in the horizontal nav; if the site's primary nav is vertical, then 
sitemap should be listed as one of the lower items in the vertical nav.&nbsp; If 
the information flow up/down is structure well, the sitemap is only 
secondary.&nbsp; Information flow should not only be concerned with people 
getting to places, but also getting back, knowing where they are, knowing what 
to expect&nbsp;up/down the flow, and it should be 
"intuitive."</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>I'm not concerned 
about making the design work here and now, by definition it'll already be 
obsolete by the time your read this.&nbsp; My concern is making sure this design 
works now and in the future, taking growth 
and&nbsp;human/technological&nbsp;changes into account.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>All in all, I think 
the test site is off to a good start, allowing you to navigate many pages with a 
rough implementation of the design.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>Another concern, 
please refrain from leaking work-in-progress to the general public&nbsp;-- this 
practice has historically generated more problems than it solves.&nbsp; If the 
public needs to be updated, then planned and Gentoo-coordinated updates are the 
way to go, i.e. someone put together a package specifically&nbsp;for the purpose 
of a press release.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>This ended up longer 
than I thought, but there you go.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005>Cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005>Aaron</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=531421001-08082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=531421001-08082005>P.S. Michael, 
haven't heard from you in a while, hope all is well with you.&nbsp; Are you 
working on the test server?...I can no longer access your DSL hosted site.&nbsp; 
Activity on the list has been nil for 2 months, we didn't move to a new list did 
we?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Re: Update: August 07, 2005
-- Sven Vermeulen
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