[gentoo-alt] Re: Digest of [e-mail] issue 488 (7750-7752)

[Lucas Ramage]

> I don't think venv is the correct way to handle system complexity.  And
> I don't understand what can be achieved by installing portage inside.

Being able to install portage via pip [1] makes collaboration easier for
people who are already used to Python.

For example, when attempting to install portage manually, `python setup.py
install --help` outputs:

  --prefix              installation prefix
  --exec-prefix         (Unix only) prefix for platform-specific files
  --home                (Unix only) home directory to install under
  --user                install in user site-package
                        '/home/lramage/.local/lib64/python2.7/site-packages'
  --install-base        base installation directory (instead of --prefix or
--
                        home)
  --install-platbase    base installation directory for platform-specific
                        files (instead of --exec-prefix or --home)
  --root                install everything relative to this alternate root
                        directory
  --install-purelib     installation directory for pure Python module
                        distributions
  --install-platlib     installation directory for non-pure module
                        distributions
  --install-lib         installation directory for all module distributions
                        (overrides --install-purelib and --install-platlib)
  --install-headers     installation directory for C/C++ headers
  --install-scripts     installation directory for Python scripts
  --install-data        installation directory for data files
  --compile (-c)        compile .py to .pyc [default]
  --no-compile          don't compile .py files
  --optimize (-O)       also compile with optimization: -O1 for "python
-O", -
                        O2 for "python -OO", and -O0 to disable [default:
-O0]
  --force (-f)          force installation (overwrite any existing files)
  --skip-build          skip rebuilding everything (for testing/debugging)
  --record              filename in which to record list of installed files
  --system-prefix       Prefix for architecture-independent data
  --system-exec-prefix  Prefix for architecture-specific data
  --bindir              Install directory for main executables
  --datarootdir         Data install root directory
  --docdir              Documentation install directory
  --htmldir             HTML documentation install directory
  --mandir              Manpage root install directory
  --portage-base (-b)   Portage install base
  --portage-bindir      Install directory for Portage internal-use
executables
  --portage-datadir     Install directory for data files
  --sbindir             Install directory for superuser-intended executables
  --sysconfdir          System configuration path

Even after reading the documentation [2], I still didn't understand how to
actually install portage.
I also looked at the official ebuild [3] but I still wasted a few hours
trying to figure everything out.

I'm sure there are much smarter developers than me who could figure it out,
but I don't think this is practical for proxy-maintainers and power users.

However, with:

    pip install --user portage

I can be on my merry way working on my ebuilds within a few minutes.

>> Not sure how that would work technically.

> virtualenv It is a dirtier hack than what we do with Prefix.

Again, I have no idea about the technical details involved with
`virtualenv`,
I just know that it allows me to quickly setup a development environment
without contaminating my system.

This is why postmarketOS is growing so fast. I already know how to create
packages for alpine linux and
I am familiar with python so I can port a device in less than a day if
there aren't too many hardware restrictions
(locked bootloader, no root access, binary blobs).

References:

[1]: https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/packaging-projects
[2]: https://dev.gentoo.org/~zmedico/portage/doc/portage.html
[3]: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/sys-apps/portage


On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 3:02 PM, <gentoo-alt+help@l.g.o> wrote:

> Topics (messages 7750 through 7752):
>
> [gentoo-alt] Re: Portage sync on demand
>       7750 - Benda Xu <heroxbd@g.o>
>
> [gentoo-alt] Re: Portage sync on demand
>       7751 - Lucas Ramage <ramage.lucas94@×××××.com>
>
> [gentoo-alt] Re: Portage sync on demand
>       7752 - Benda Xu <heroxbd@g.o>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Benda Xu <heroxbd@g.o>
> To: Lucas Ramage <ramage.lucas94@×××××.com>
> Cc: gentoo-alt@l.g.o
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2018 04:03:22 +0900
> Subject: [gentoo-alt] Re: Portage sync on demand
> Hi Lucas,
>
> I think gentoo-alt has more expertise to solve the problems.
>
> Lucas Ramage <ramage.lucas94@×××××.com> writes:
>
> > So on unprivileged devices, I have been installing portage directly in
> > Termux and I have been having issues when attempting to checkout the
> > main tree. It's way too big! I don't have ~2GB+ just for ebuilds.
> >
> > It would be nice if I could run emerge and it would dynamically parse
> > the tree for dependencies and then fetch and build them without
> > installing them locally.
>
> Yes, that's a good-to-have.
>
> I am interpreting "installing them" as installing the gentoo portage
> tree.
>
> > I've used nfs and sshfs for mounting a remote tree
>
> I would go this way when in short of storage.
>
> > but I think it would be kind of awesome to use git directly.
>
> > This would be useful for working on rooting exploits on the fly. I
> > know Termux has support for Metasploit but it's ruby-based and pretty
> > heavy. Still not as bad as compiling perl though.
>
> It is a pain in the ass to use a phone without root.  I will avoid it
> when I buy a phone.
>
> At the same time I understand that your effort will help those who stuck
> in Android normal user jails.
>
> > Also, I am still trying to figure out a reliable way to run a
> > unprivileged Gentoo RAP. So far I have tested
> > `/data/data/{com.termux,org.connectbot,jackpal.androidterm}` but I
> > assume any other terminal emulator will work. Is it not possible to
> > use a relative or dynamic path?
>
> Our IRC channel #gentoo-prefix freenode had a lot of discussions on
> relocating Gentoo Prefix.  The conclusion is that portage has support
> for it built in, but outdated and need some extra love.
>
> Yours,
> Benda
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Lucas Ramage <ramage.lucas94@×××××.com>
> To: gentoo-alt@l.g.o
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 11:54:56 -0400
> Subject: [gentoo-alt] Re: Portage sync on demand
> >> It would be nice if I could run emerge and it would dynamically parse
> >> the tree for dependencies and then fetch and build them without
> >> installing them locally.
>
> > I am interpreting "installing them" as installing the gentoo portage
> tree.
>
> That is correct. First fetching the ebuilds required, then actually
> merging them.
>
> >> I've used nfs and sshfs for mounting a remote tree
>
> > I would go this way when in short of storage.
>
> Are there any performance issues with this approach besides network
> speed/bandwidth.
>
> And let's say I'm not on WiFi. These are mobile devices after all.
>
> I'm thinking of a proxy server setup that could calculate dependencies on
> the fly and only download those specific ebuilds.
>
> Also, I could see GLEP 9 as being useful for updating over cellular
> networks.
>
> References:
>
> - [GLEP 9: Gentoo Package Update System](https://www.gentoo.org
> /glep/glep-0009.html)
>
> - [Over-the-Air programming (OTA)](https://en.wikipedia.or
> g/wiki/Over-the-air_programming)
>
> >> Also, I am still trying to figure out a reliable way to run a
> >> unprivileged Gentoo RAP. So far I have tested
> >> `/data/data/{com.termux,org.connectbot,jackpal.androidterm}` but I
> >> assume any other terminal emulator will work. Is it not possible to
> >> use a relative or dynamic path?
>
> > Our IRC channel #gentoo-prefix freenode had a lot of discussions on
> > relocating Gentoo Prefix.  The conclusion is that portage has support
> > for it built in, but outdated and need some extra love.
>
> That would be excellent. Python's virtualenv utility is pretty neat.
> It would be awesome if one could install portage inside of virtualenv, or
> to be able to `pip install --user portage`.
>
> Not sure how that would work technically.
>
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 3:03 PM, Benda Xu <heroxbd@g.o> wrote:
>
>> Hi Lucas,
>>
>> I think gentoo-alt has more expertise to solve the problems.
>>
>> Lucas Ramage <ramage.lucas94@×××××.com> writes:
>>
>> > So on unprivileged devices, I have been installing portage directly in
>> > Termux and I have been having issues when attempting to checkout the
>> > main tree. It's way too big! I don't have ~2GB+ just for ebuilds.
>> >
>> > It would be nice if I could run emerge and it would dynamically parse
>> > the tree for dependencies and then fetch and build them without
>> > installing them locally.
>>
>> Yes, that's a good-to-have.
>>
>> I am interpreting "installing them" as installing the gentoo portage
>> tree.
>>
>> > I've used nfs and sshfs for mounting a remote tree
>>
>> I would go this way when in short of storage.
>>
>> > but I think it would be kind of awesome to use git directly.
>>
>> > This would be useful for working on rooting exploits on the fly. I
>> > know Termux has support for Metasploit but it's ruby-based and pretty
>> > heavy. Still not as bad as compiling perl though.
>>
>> It is a pain in the ass to use a phone without root.  I will avoid it
>> when I buy a phone.
>>
>> At the same time I understand that your effort will help those who stuck
>> in Android normal user jails.
>>
>> > Also, I am still trying to figure out a reliable way to run a
>> > unprivileged Gentoo RAP. So far I have tested
>> > `/data/data/{com.termux,org.connectbot,jackpal.androidterm}` but I
>> > assume any other terminal emulator will work. Is it not possible to
>> > use a relative or dynamic path?
>>
>> Our IRC channel #gentoo-prefix freenode had a lot of discussions on
>> relocating Gentoo Prefix.  The conclusion is that portage has support
>> for it built in, but outdated and need some extra love.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Benda
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Lucas Ramage* / Software Engineer
> ramage.lucas@××××××××××.com / [phone]
>
> *PGP Fingerprint* / Learn More <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/>
> EAE7 45DF 818D 4948 DDA7 0F44 F52A 5A96 7B9B 6FB7
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>
> *Visit online journal*
> http://lramage94.gitlab.io <https://lramage94.gitlab.io>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Benda Xu <heroxbd@g.o>
> To: Lucas Ramage <ramage.lucas94@×××××.com>
> Cc: gentoo-alt@l.g.o
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 23:32:53 +0900
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-alt] Re: Portage sync on demand
> Hi Lucas,
>
> Lucas Ramage <ramage.lucas94@×××××.com> writes:
>
> >>> I've used nfs and sshfs for mounting a remote tree
> >> I would go this way when in short of storage.
> >
> > Are there any performance issues with this approach besides network
> > speed/bandwidth.
> >
> > And let's say I'm not on WiFi. These are mobile devices after all.
> >
> > I'm thinking of a proxy server setup that could calculate dependencies
> > on the fly and only download those specific ebuilds.
> >
> > Also, I could see GLEP 9 as being useful for updating over cellular
> > networks.
>
> Go for it.
>
> >> Our IRC channel #gentoo-prefix freenode had a lot of discussions on
> >> relocating Gentoo Prefix. The conclusion is that portage has support
> >> for it built in, but outdated and need some extra love.
> >
> > That would be excellent. Python's virtualenv utility is pretty neat.
> > It would be awesome if one could install portage inside of virtualenv,
> > or to be able to `pip install --user portage`.
> >
> > Not sure how that would work technically.
>
> I don't think venv is the correct way to handle system complexity.  And
> I don't understand what can be achieved by installing portage inside.
>
> virtualenv It is a dirtier hack than what we do with Prefix.
>
> Benda
>
>


-- 

*Lucas Ramage* / Software Engineer
ramage.lucas@××××××××××.com / [phone]

*PGP Fingerprint* / Learn More <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en/>
EAE7 45DF 818D 4948 DDA7 0F44 F52A 5A96 7B9B 6FB7
<https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xF52A5A967B9B6FB7>

*Visit online journal*
http://lramage94.gitlab.io <https://lramage94.gitlab.io>