Gentoo Archives: gentoo-commits

From: "Matthew Summers (quantumsummers)" <quantumsummers@g.o>
To: gentoo-commits@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-commits] gentoo commit in xml/htdocs/foundation/en/minutes/2008: october08.txt
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 22:06:37
quantumsummers    08/10/19 22:06:33

  Added:                october08.txt
  commit october raw irc log

Revision  Changes    Path
1.1                  xml/htdocs/foundation/en/minutes/2008/october08.txt

file :

Index: october08.txt
(10/19/2008 02:00:01 PM) ***NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
(10/19/2008 02:00:18 PM) ***quantumsummers|Corsair is present
(10/19/2008 02:00:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: dmwaters isn't here ... we need tsunam 
(10/19/2008 02:01:09 PM) fmccor: Let me try to call him.
(10/19/2008 02:01:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
(10/19/2008 02:02:09 PM) ***NeddySeagoon muses about schrodingers' fmccor being both here and away at the same time
(10/19/2008 02:02:31 PM) fmccor: He's on his way.
(10/19/2008 02:02:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
(10/19/2008 02:02:50 PM) tsunam: yep i'm here
(10/19/2008 02:02:55 PM) fmccor: :)
(10/19/2008 02:03:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: Fine - we have a quorum
(10/19/2008 02:03:13 PM) fmccor: I hope Deedra's OK.
(10/19/2008 02:03:27 PM) fmccor: (Well, she's sick)
(10/19/2008 02:03:30 PM) NeddySeagoon: here note didn't say much ...
(10/19/2008 02:03:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: Skip Introductions.
(10/19/2008 02:03:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: Item 2 Actions From the Last Meeting
(10/19/2008 02:03:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam   ?
(10/19/2008 02:05:06 PM) tsunam: ferris and I signed a document for the bank. What was told to us was different then what was required. So we will need to resubmit and the woman who's actually dealing with it will need to EIN certificate as well. I'll call the irs next week and see if the registered address has changed yet and if so get them to send that out
(10/19/2008 02:05:22 PM) tsunam: basically the corp needs to be first and then ferris and I are cosigners
(10/19/2008 02:05:36 PM) tsunam: very minor technical difference but we'll have to resubmit that document
(10/19/2008 02:05:56 PM) tsunam: fmccor: and yes I did get the paper copy from you. sorry I forgot to mention that
(10/19/2008 02:06:08 PM) fmccor: I figured you did.
(10/19/2008 02:06:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: things are moving in the right direction.   any eta for the IRS doing its thing ?
(10/19/2008 02:06:32 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: its the government I hope on updating the address..they'd be quick
(10/19/2008 02:06:38 PM) tsunam: I've given them ~2 weeks so far
(10/19/2008 02:06:45 PM) tsunam: so I hope its been updated and I can get that informaiton
(10/19/2008 02:06:56 PM) tsunam: so we can get it to the bank and get an account finally
(10/19/2008 02:06:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, you have more faith in your government than I do in mine
(10/19/2008 02:07:20 PM) fmccor: Our government is paralyzed right now.
(10/19/2008 02:07:28 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, is it worth approaching grant for the cheque now that things are moving ?
(10/19/2008 02:07:41 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: I think it might
(10/19/2008 02:07:49 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, Oh yeah, election year
(10/19/2008 02:08:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, then we might have the cheque when the paperwork is in order
(10/19/2008 02:08:20 PM) fmccor: And our president has quit about 3 months early.
(10/19/2008 02:08:35 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, Oh, I missed that
(10/19/2008 02:08:56 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, I mean metaphorically --- he's quit doing anything much at all.
(10/19/2008 02:08:58 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: we also have a check coming eventially from google as well
(10/19/2008 02:09:21 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep, so there will be funds to deposit when we are ready
(10/19/2008 02:09:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets move on
(10/19/2008 02:09:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: Fix name and address on IPR/trademark documents, 31 Aug 2008 meeting authorised the $200 fees (needs a bank)
(10/19/2008 02:09:50 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats on hold
(10/19/2008 02:10:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN - (On hold while we are under strenght) ... I was supposed to do something with that and I haven't :(   sorry
(10/19/2008 02:10:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: .the google check id for gsoc?
(10/19/2008 02:10:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: *is
(10/19/2008 02:10:40 PM) fmccor: It's probably only $100 (I think we have 1 trademark), and it really matters only for threatening people in the US.
(10/19/2008 02:10:42 PM) tsunam: yes quantumsummers 
(10/19/2008 02:11:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I thought we had two  "Gentoo Linux"  and the G logo
(10/19/2008 02:11:42 PM) fmccor: I can't figure it out.  It would be great if we had both.
(10/19/2008 02:12:03 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I suspect both are TMs
(10/19/2008 02:12:33 PM) fmccor: I'll have to call Ms. Neundorf and get an answer, because as you will see in a bit, it matters a *lot*
(10/19/2008 02:12:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, there is something in the scans from rl03 and grant
(10/19/2008 02:13:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, your turn now ...  International Licencing For Gentoo Merchandise - fmccor
(10/19/2008 02:13:18 PM) fmccor: OK.
(10/19/2008 02:13:44 PM) fmccor: Apologies for keeping my notes restricted distribution --- there's a legal reason.
(10/19/2008 02:13:59 PM) fmccor: The contents are no problem.
(10/19/2008 02:15:40 PM) fmccor: I just opened conversations with Karen Copernhavern & Heather Balmat in Boston (Choate, etc)
(10/19/2008 02:16:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: rl03 has saved us a lot of $$$ with that introduction
(10/19/2008 02:16:25 PM) fmccor: I'll call her Karen because of my terrible typing.
(10/19/2008 02:16:52 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they represent the linux foundation as well?
(10/19/2008 02:16:58 PM) fmccor: Indeed he did.  They plan/hope to represent us pro bono, 
(10/19/2008 02:17:07 PM) fmccor: Karen used to personally.
(10/19/2008 02:17:34 PM) fmccor: Anyway, they know very well the "industry" we are in.
(10/19/2008 02:18:01 PM) fmccor: Some of this is repetitive for the board, but not the audience, so briefly:
(10/19/2008 02:18:30 PM) fmccor: Trademarks are valid by country or region, depeneing on treaties.
(10/19/2008 02:19:05 PM) fmccor: In the US, it's yours if you use it first, but you can register it to keep an official paper trail.
(10/19/2008 02:19:31 PM) fmccor: Everywhere else, it's yours if you register it first --- use does not seem to matter.
(10/19/2008 02:20:18 PM) fmccor: Thus, we can easily enough license anyone anywhere to sell our stuff, but to protect our trademarks anywhere, we must register them (independent of use).
(10/19/2008 02:21:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: So we only have trademark protection in the US today ?
(10/19/2008 02:21:47 PM) fmccor: So, we can easily license someone in Brazil (I think that was one request) to sell mugs, and by contract we can require them to protect our trademarks themselves, but for general protection in Brazil, we must register it there.
(10/19/2008 02:21:48 PM) tsunam: in short that is the case, the e.v has the trademark in germany
(10/19/2008 02:22:05 PM) fmccor: They have the "G"
(10/19/2008 02:22:36 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, Yes, unless someone has registered them for us elsewhere.
(10/19/2008 02:23:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: We need to talk with the e.V. about working together in some way then ?
(10/19/2008 02:24:18 PM) fmccor: There are lots of possibilities, and I expect to speak with our lawyers about it next week and with e.V. once I determine who speaks for them.
(10/19/2008 02:25:01 PM) fmccor: To that end, I'd like some negotiating authority, otherwise such talks can take forever.
(10/19/2008 02:25:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: Where does that leave us with Licencing For and Licencing For Projektfarm GmbH ?  Have we just stepped on the e.Vs  toes ?
(10/19/2008 02:26:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair:   I suspect that it does not effect, but Projektfarm GmbH could take issue/ bypass the foundation
(10/19/2008 02:26:26 PM) fmccor: No, we can license them, but we can't license the "G" --- for them to use the "G", they need to work with e.V.
(10/19/2008 02:27:24 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: use of "G" logo was their request
(10/19/2008 02:27:25 PM) fmccor: We should be able to register "Gentoo Linux" in the EU, and it is ours in the US, registered or not (as I understand it).
(10/19/2008 02:27:40 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, We can't grant that rught now.
(10/19/2008 02:27:47 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I have no problem with you talking to the e.V. as our representative but any 'agreement' you may reach will have to be ratified by the board
(10/19/2008 02:27:59 PM) fmccor: Understood.
(10/19/2008 02:28:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, are you ok with ^^
(10/19/2008 02:28:42 PM) tsunam: yes thats fine with me
(10/19/2008 02:28:56 PM) fmccor: First I have to determine who speaks for e.V., and I want to see what makes sense from Ms. Balmat's point of view (she's Choate's TM person best as I can tell).
(10/19/2008 02:28:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats carried then ... 
(10/19/2008 02:30:02 PM) fmccor: I don't know the reach of e.V. 's ownership, either.  It's Germany + treaties.
(10/19/2008 02:30:31 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, Its probably EU wide and growing as the EU expands
(10/19/2008 02:30:41 PM) fmccor: Probably EU + ...
(10/19/2008 02:31:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, any more on this topic ?
(10/19/2008 02:31:24 PM) fmccor: Summary, ignoring e.V. for the moment, yes.
(10/19/2008 02:31:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they have an irc channel]
(10/19/2008 02:31:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: on freenode
(10/19/2008 02:32:18 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets not jump in there right now ... leave fmccor to make contact
(10/19/2008 02:32:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: sure
(10/19/2008 02:32:34 PM) fmccor: Whenever a request for use of "G" comes in, we can grant it's use as a courtesy unless someone has beat us to wherever the requestor is.
(10/19/2008 02:32:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there is some info re their status with Germany here
(10/19/2008 02:33:05 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair:
(10/19/2008 02:33:23 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I'll look later
(10/19/2008 02:33:47 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
(10/19/2008 02:33:49 PM) fmccor: To protect it, we should register it there, if we can --- Karen suggests writing into the agreement that the requestor at least share the cost of registration since it is to their benefit.
(10/19/2008 02:34:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, sounds fair.  If the cost puts the enquiry off, so be it
(10/19/2008 02:35:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, done ?
(10/19/2008 02:35:35 PM) fmccor: From a practical point of view, the reason to register it is to keep them from doing so. :)  It's not like there's a big run for purple "G"
(10/19/2008 02:35:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: hehe
(10/19/2008 02:36:42 PM) NeddySeagoon: Certified Public Accountant - quantumsummers
(10/19/2008 02:36:51 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: 1. We need one.
(10/19/2008 02:37:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep
(10/19/2008 02:37:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I have been in contact with the django foundation & indirectly the psf regarding this
(10/19/2008 02:37:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: python sw foundation that is
(10/19/2008 02:37:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: also some of my other contacts in the np workd
(10/19/2008 02:37:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: all say its rather important
(10/19/2008 02:38:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: to this end I have attempted to procure tentative pro bono services
(10/19/2008 02:38:57 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I am in talks with a group that manages about 700 nps, but they are reluctant to take us on for free
(10/19/2008 02:39:10 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: given they are unable to fully appraise the situation
(10/19/2008 02:39:36 PM) tsunam: what are they in need of?
(10/19/2008 02:39:39 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, can we give them the info they need ?
(10/19/2008 02:39:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we need banking set up, we also need to at least try to get the previous years bank statements
(10/19/2008 02:40:02 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: noone ever filed with the irs in the past
(10/19/2008 02:40:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: correct
(10/19/2008 02:40:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, its likely that any cpa would want to go over those years too
(10/19/2008 02:40:34 PM) tsunam: k
(10/19/2008 02:40:45 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, do we have that info ?
(10/19/2008 02:40:51 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: from talking to grant, netbank was bought out by ing
(10/19/2008 02:40:59 PM) tsunam: all I have access to is paypal
(10/19/2008 02:41:09 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we may be able to get that info from them
(10/19/2008 02:41:13 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ing that is
(10/19/2008 02:41:18 PM) tsunam: possibly
(10/19/2008 02:41:23 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: our paypal history is important as well
(10/19/2008 02:41:31 PM) tsunam: but really the bank account was a "holding tank"
(10/19/2008 02:41:36 PM) tsunam: for stuff transfered out
(10/19/2008 02:41:39 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: grant offered to assist in dealing with ing
(10/19/2008 02:41:40 PM) tsunam: I can get the paypal history without issue
(10/19/2008 02:41:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, is that something for you or should you delegate it ?
(10/19/2008 02:42:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: other than that, at worst its around $500/year for a cpa
(10/19/2008 02:42:16 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: I can get the paypal information and forward it onto quantumsummers 
(10/19/2008 02:42:22 PM) tsunam: but the ing account would be best from grant
(10/19/2008 02:42:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: includes balancing books, assusring correct protocol for $ movement, & tax preparation
(10/19/2008 02:42:42 PM) tsunam: he will have less issues getting informaiton
(10/19/2008 02:42:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ok, what about approching ing for our banking history ?
(10/19/2008 02:43:08 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: thats the part I was meaning for grant
(10/19/2008 02:43:47 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ok, sounds like its history and not relevant to bankg going forward, so no harm in quantumsummers talking to grant
(10/19/2008 02:44:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, quantumsummers is that ok ?
(10/19/2008 02:44:06 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I can ask him to do it, I spoke with him about this a few weeks ago
(10/19/2008 02:44:08 PM) fmccor: Is there any way to get a clean handoff from Grant, including introductions?
(10/19/2008 02:44:23 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: that is the hope
(10/19/2008 02:44:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we could do a conference call with the bank & all of us
(10/19/2008 02:44:44 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: inc grant
(10/19/2008 02:45:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, if you need me, it needs to be early morning your West Cost time
(10/19/2008 02:45:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: central time, but yesa, I gotcha
(10/19/2008 02:45:40 PM) fmccor: If you think that's best --- can you set it up?  I don't have the capability except to call in.
(10/19/2008 02:45:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: tsunam's west coast
(10/19/2008 02:45:59 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: sure, I can get things going there
(10/19/2008 02:46:05 PM) ***fmccor is east 
(10/19/2008 02:46:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, my timezone changes next weekend ...
(10/19/2008 02:46:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, I will email about it ahead of time so we can all be on the call
(10/19/2008 02:46:56 PM) fmccor: Brings you an hour closer for about 2 weeks.
(10/19/2008 02:47:08 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, ok
(10/19/2008 02:47:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so basically
(10/19/2008 02:47:37 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we have options, but need more info to get pro bono, if we pay we can go ahead at any point
(10/19/2008 02:47:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, pay how much ?
(10/19/2008 02:48:02 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: at worst ~ $500 per year
(10/19/2008 02:48:28 PM) ***fmccor would pay if you have an accountant in mind and you can work with.
(10/19/2008 02:48:33 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: which is not too bad
(10/19/2008 02:48:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: lets hang out for pro bono ... its unlikely they will switch after we start paying
(10/19/2008 02:49:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: How urgently do we need a CPA ?
(10/19/2008 02:49:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, I will report on this further as the situation develops.
(10/19/2008 02:49:47 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: well, its a really good idea to get one as soon as possible
(10/19/2008 02:50:07 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: though, I don't think anyone will go to jail if we wait a few more months
(10/19/2008 02:50:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: Lets get the telecon set up ... and take it from there
(10/19/2008 02:50:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: nice thing is that all reports (quarterly & annual) are taken care of
(10/19/2008 02:50:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & taxes are done.  I will continue research into this matter
(10/19/2008 02:50:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: Sounds goog
(10/19/2008 02:51:02 PM) NeddySeagoon: good*
(10/19/2008 02:51:05 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think that's it for cpa
(10/19/2008 02:51:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: icencing For   and   Licencing For Projektfarm GmbH - quantumsummers
(10/19/2008 02:51:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: do we want to put this on hold until we have spoken with thw e.V.  ?
(10/19/2008 02:52:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, well given the above regarding  Projektfarm, and since I sent them an email long ago & never heard back from them, putting this on hold is good until we sort out the IP status internationally
(10/19/2008 02:52:59 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, ^^^
(10/19/2008 02:53:05 PM) fmccor: Yes.
(10/19/2008 02:53:09 PM) fmccor: Saw it.
(10/19/2008 02:53:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: Clarify Trustee/Officer roles to enable a Trustee/Officer role split - update bylaws tracker bug -fmccor
(10/19/2008 02:53:43 PM) fmccor: The problem really is whether or not the trademark(s) are owned by someone else and if so, what they will allow or want.
(10/19/2008 02:53:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: indeed
(10/19/2008 02:54:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, is you update in a suitable form to copy/paste into a new set of draft bylaws ?
(10/19/2008 02:54:13 PM) fmccor: I don't think there's anything for the tracker --- bylaws are clear.
(10/19/2008 02:54:44 PM) fmccor: Bylaws are clear on the roles and who does what.
(10/19/2008 02:54:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, we are ready for the officer split?
(10/19/2008 02:55:05 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: how do you plan to recruit?
(10/19/2008 02:55:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, it was the President/Chairman splt and the vices
(10/19/2008 02:55:39 PM) fmccor: Yes, bylaws assume s aplit there and say if not, president acts ac chair.
(10/19/2008 02:55:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, not quite, the bylaws need to be updated, adopted and cirulated to members
(10/19/2008 02:55:58 PM) fmccor: We currently have a president but no chair.
(10/19/2008 02:56:20 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, No, bylaws need no change for a split.
(10/19/2008 02:56:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
(10/19/2008 02:56:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: Send friendly cease and desist emails to copyright infringers spotted on cafepress - quantumsummers
(10/19/2008 02:57:08 PM) fmccor: We just don't have a chair or vice-chair, and it will be convenient to give NeddySeagoon 2 hats.
(10/19/2008 02:57:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: and yourself fmccor 
(10/19/2008 02:57:47 PM) fmccor: True.
fmccor fmccor|away 
(10/19/2008 02:58:11 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, NeddySeagoon will remain Pres/Chair & fmccor will remain VP/V-chair?
(10/19/2008 02:58:47 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, Not quite --- problem is we don't have a chair or vice-chair, and I am proposing to appoint them.
(10/19/2008 02:58:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ah, gotcha
(10/19/2008 02:59:09 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: shall we talk about that a bit?
(10/19/2008 02:59:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, unless there is good reason not to, then I would resign as President.  There may be advantages to having the officers all as US citizens 
(10/19/2008 02:59:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: thus making you the chairman?
(10/19/2008 02:59:32 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon is running these meetings as president acting as chair because we don't have a chair.
(10/19/2008 02:59:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, yes
(10/19/2008 02:59:41 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, makes sense.
(10/19/2008 03:00:13 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: will there be a similar announcement regarding these vacancies?
(10/19/2008 03:00:21 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, No advantage.  I'd argue just the opposite once we get the banking in place.
(10/19/2008 03:00:24 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: similar to the previous one(s)
(10/19/2008 03:00:56 PM) ***fmccor thinks we are better off staying as international as possible.
fmccor fmccor|away 
(10/19/2008 03:01:00 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I agree with fmccor
(10/19/2008 03:01:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, possibly but that was one of the options we considered earier as the bank wanted to make life difficicult of no USA citizens
(10/19/2008 03:01:48 PM) fmccor: Probably treasurer should be US citizen and one of Pres, VP.  That should be enough.
(10/19/2008 03:02:00 PM) NeddySeagoon: Back to ... Send friendly cease and desist emails to copyright infringers spotted on cafepress - quantumsummers
(10/19/2008 03:03:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, I have a draft, but I have not sent it.  I felt uncertain about the status & this meeting has clarified these somewhat. Would you like me to circulate the draft?  Also, my plan was to simply sent it to cafepress & let them deal with things.
(10/19/2008 03:04:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, ok, send it to trustees@
(10/19/2008 03:04:19 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: some of the infringers are international I think, which is another consideration
(10/19/2008 03:04:40 PM) fmccor: You will have to.  Assuming cafepress is in the US, we can enforce trademark wrt them, but we can't do anything about the individuals if they are ourside the US.
(10/19/2008 03:05:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: shall I also spread this to other US based companies?
(10/19/2008 03:05:28 PM) fmccor: Are there any?
(10/19/2008 03:05:41 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: not sure, I was looking at spreadshirt
(10/19/2008 03:05:41 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, if you find more infringers - yes.  If we don't protect our marks, they become public domain
(10/19/2008 03:05:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: very well
(10/19/2008 03:06:09 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers spreadshirt have an arrangement with the e.V 
(10/19/2008 03:06:27 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes I know
(10/19/2008 03:06:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they have offices in many countries
(10/19/2008 03:07:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, lets keep it to USA infringers until the International position becomes clear
(10/19/2008 03:07:21 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: cafepress will get a letter
(10/19/2008 03:07:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, its polite to copy it to the companies too
(10/19/2008 03:08:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: very well, its been rather difficult tracking all of them down, as there are many
(10/19/2008 03:08:28 PM) NeddySeagoon: anyway, sent it to trustees@ and we can all look it over
(10/19/2008 03:08:35 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yessir
(10/19/2008 03:08:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: Propose wording to open Foundation Membership - update bylaws tracker bug -fmccor
(10/19/2008 03:09:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: IS this copy and paste ready ?
(10/19/2008 03:09:31 PM) fmccor: I put forth a 1 sentence proposal, there are a couple comments on it.
(10/19/2008 03:09:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: We will look at the bug under the next agenda item
(10/19/2008 03:10:08 PM) fmccor: I'm happy with it as it is for now, and we can amend it as we discuss it.
(10/19/2008 03:10:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: 3. Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
(10/19/2008 03:10:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 177966 
(10/19/2008 03:10:40 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: "Clarify Foundation page on external entities"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; NEW; wolf31o2@g.o:trustees@g.o
(10/19/2008 03:10:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: I was supposed to close that, and I havent.  Sorry
(10/19/2008 03:11:20 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 217511
(10/19/2008 03:11:22 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: "The Gentoo Store is Out of Date"; Gentoo Foundation, Proposals; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
(10/19/2008 03:11:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: musikc, around ?
(10/19/2008 03:11:47 PM) fmccor: I think she's in China --- tsunam would know
(10/19/2008 03:12:11 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there were several updates make by musikc
(10/19/2008 03:12:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: There has been some stuff added
(10/19/2008 03:12:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 236863
(10/19/2008 03:12:55 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: "Tracker Bug for the bylaws of the Gentoo Foundation Inc."; Gentoo Linux, Unspecified; NEW; neddyseagoon@g.o:trustees@g.o
(10/19/2008 03:13:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: Lets discuss the bylaw amendment(s) now
(10/19/2008 03:15:03 PM) fmccor: OK, I think 6.3 in comment 6 is a no-brainer (even though I did write it).
(10/19/2008 03:15:24 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes
(10/19/2008 03:16:17 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think it would be nice to do what the linux foundation just did, allow anyone to become a member of the foundation by contributing
(10/19/2008 03:16:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, agreed
(10/19/2008 03:16:50 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: which reminds me, it may be possible to get nice tax receipts for devs that volunteer
(10/19/2008 03:17:18 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, You mean with $$$ , or ... ?
(10/19/2008 03:17:31 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: would need a standard to determine the "value", I mean a tax write-off
(10/19/2008 03:17:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, thats the 'on merit'  I proposed.  devs qualify immediately on becoming a dev, if thay want to, non devs need to show what they have done
(10/19/2008 03:18:28 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes, on merit makes good sense
(10/19/2008 03:18:38 PM) NeddySeagoon: ranes' leaving is already in the bylaws
(10/19/2008 03:19:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: though there is precedent with other OSS foundations for allowing membership by donation
(10/19/2008 03:19:54 PM) ***fmccor does not think he likes that idea.
(10/19/2008 03:19:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: not sure how you or the community would feel about this
(10/19/2008 03:20:00 PM) NeddySeagoon: I want to scrap the 1 year rule as the foundation imdemnifies its memebrs ... there is no reason for devs not to have that benefit
(10/19/2008 03:20:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, why ?
(10/19/2008 03:20:39 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: makes sense to protect the devs at join date
(10/19/2008 03:21:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, as long as its not compulsorary
fmccor fmccor|away 
(10/19/2008 03:21:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: NeddySeagoon: yes
fmccor fmccor|away 
(10/19/2008 03:21:32 PM) fmccor: Membership by donation?  I'm not sure, it just feels a little wrong.  I don't have strong feelings on it one way or the other.
(10/19/2008 03:21:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, nope - not by donation ... did I say that ?
(10/19/2008 03:22:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: fmccor, the main reason I bring that up is that several of the larger OSS foundations use that to get corporate & private donors
(10/19/2008 03:22:46 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: think public radio
(10/19/2008 03:23:09 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, perhaps we were out of sync.  I agree with all the rest of the discussion.
(10/19/2008 03:23:15 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I don't see membership by donation happing any time soon.  Maybe when we can offer 501(c) benefits
(10/19/2008 03:23:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes, that is necessary
(10/19/2008 03:23:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: the cpa will assist with 501c3
(10/19/2008 03:24:01 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: takes 6 to 9 months
(10/19/2008 03:24:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: highly recommended
(10/19/2008 03:24:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I think we a a year or two away from that ... if the donor corps take the risk of us screwing up in the 5 year trail
(10/19/2008 03:24:55 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we will be fine, I am fairly certain there have been no dubious dealings
(10/19/2008 03:25:23 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: esp given that the cash flow has been so low
(10/19/2008 03:25:35 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & noone has taken salary
(10/19/2008 03:25:43 PM) NeddySeagoon: for the next bylaw update ... its not a useful option  and we are taliking of an update before Christmas
(10/19/2008 03:26:09 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so, are we opening up membership to devs immediately upon joining?
(10/19/2008 03:26:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, its the income balance that could be a problem
(10/19/2008 03:27:08 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats the suggestion ... and to non devs on merit. Merit will be judged on a case by case basis by the board
(10/19/2008 03:27:34 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: imo, opening foundation membership to users could engender greater community happiness, etc. so a non-dev would apply for membership?
(10/19/2008 03:27:48 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & be judged by the board
(10/19/2008 03:28:03 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: or would a dev suggest a non-dev for membership?
(10/19/2008 03:28:05 PM) fmccor: Yes, that's fine with me.
(10/19/2008 03:28:16 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, I hope it will help close the dev / non dev devide
(10/19/2008 03:28:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we will need a standard of merit
(10/19/2008 03:28:37 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I agere NeddySeagoon, that will be a very good thing for everyone
(10/19/2008 03:28:41 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: *agree
(10/19/2008 03:28:49 PM) fmccor: Also.
(10/19/2008 03:29:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, The board will judge each case on it merits.  It needs to be a verifiable contribution
(10/19/2008 03:29:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: what types of contributions will be considered?
(10/19/2008 03:30:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, anythiing to the good og Gentoo and open source
(10/19/2008 03:30:08 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: gentoo-wiki, blogging, forums participation ... ?
(10/19/2008 03:30:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: of*
(10/19/2008 03:30:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
(10/19/2008 03:30:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: so users are welcome to apply
(10/19/2008 03:30:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: e.g. if Wayne Chew applied ... 
(10/19/2008 03:30:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: thats fmccors' example
(10/19/2008 03:30:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: they must provide some form of "proof of contribution"
(10/19/2008 03:31:13 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: makes sense.
(10/19/2008 03:31:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: They need to provide something we can check out, yes
(10/19/2008 03:31:38 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: just trying to figure out what to say in the summary, :D
(10/19/2008 03:31:47 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: very well.
(10/19/2008 03:32:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, you have been quiet ... are you agreed with the ideas above ?
(10/19/2008 03:32:27 PM) fmccor: Probably part of it will be in the form "Ask xxx and yyy what I'm up to."
(10/19/2008 03:32:48 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep
(10/19/2008 03:32:48 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: hehe yes I have been
(10/19/2008 03:32:56 PM) tsunam: I've never been for donations for membership
(10/19/2008 03:33:03 PM) tsunam: 501c3 always pushed for
(10/19/2008 03:33:47 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, in years to come, it would be GNi donating to  the foundation instead of infra, to get 503(c) tax relief 
(10/19/2008 03:33:59 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: yep
(10/19/2008 03:34:12 PM) tsunam: makes it much more useful for businesses to donate as they can write it off
(10/19/2008 03:34:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: and GNi would be a member ... or not ?
(10/19/2008 03:34:19 PM) tsunam: nope
(10/19/2008 03:35:13 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, I have no strong feelings one way or another.  GNi was just an example ... it applies to all our USA based sponsors
(10/19/2008 03:35:38 PM) tsunam: A sponsor is fine but not as a member of the foundation
(10/19/2008 03:36:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: I'll offer to update the bylaws over the next week but I don't have a USA spell checker
(10/19/2008 03:36:47 PM) fmccor: We can decipher your strange spelling. :)
(10/19/2008 03:36:53 PM) NeddySeagoon: In line with the bug and discussions here
(10/19/2008 03:36:57 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: here, please let me know if this works for you guys
(10/19/2008 03:37:04 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: Some very important changes regarding foundation membership are being finalized.  First, as all Gentoo developers and staff are encouraged to join the foundation, membership will now be available at join data, whereas previously a one year wait perios was required. Secondly, all contributing Gentoo users are encouraged to apply for foundation mambership.  Approval will be granted by the board of trustees on a per application basis, contigent on the applicant providing verifiable proof of meaningful contribution to Gentoo.
(10/19/2008 03:37:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: that should be join date not data
(10/19/2008 03:37:26 PM) fmccor: "join data"?
(10/19/2008 03:37:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: lol
(10/19/2008 03:37:31 PM) fmccor: OK.
(10/19/2008 03:37:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: yep
(10/19/2008 03:37:47 PM) rane: you shouldn't write that long sentences on irc
(10/19/2008 03:37:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: thanks for the summary
(10/19/2008 03:37:57 PM) rane: it cuts down after 150 chars or sth like that
(10/19/2008 03:38:25 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I wrote it for the doc rane, but I will chop it up in the future
(10/19/2008 03:38:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: We will vote on the new bylaws at the November meetting
(10/19/2008 03:38:40 PM) fmccor: quantumsummers, Fine with me.
(10/19/2008 03:38:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: !bug 56711 
(10/19/2008 03:38:49 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, thanks
(10/19/2008 03:38:49 PM) Willikins: NeddySeagoon: "Retire: Renat Lumpau (rl03)"; Recruitment, New Developers; NEW; stuart@g.o:retirement@g.o
(10/19/2008 03:39:22 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: seems like everyone is for retiring renat, but giving him an email forward
(10/19/2008 03:39:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: As  Renat is out of the country can we defer another month ?
(10/19/2008 03:39:32 PM) fmccor: I don't have strong feelings === I'd just like to wait for him to get back into the country so he can comment himself first.
(10/19/2008 03:39:40 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok
(10/19/2008 03:39:44 PM) fmccor: You beat me to it.
(10/19/2008 03:40:34 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, I don't want to bend the rules just because it suits us.  The project has its rules (hen the bug) and the Foundation as its rules
(10/19/2008 03:40:40 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, I'd say defer --- there's nothing hanging on his status.
(10/19/2008 03:40:51 PM) tsunam: you know my stance so
(10/19/2008 03:41:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: rane, are you ok with another month ?
(10/19/2008 03:41:18 PM) rane: what do you mean?
(10/19/2008 03:41:38 PM) fmccor: NeddySeagoon, right now he's away, whether marked as such or not, so I think that suspends action anyway.
(10/19/2008 03:41:57 PM) rane: i'm fine with waiting
(10/19/2008 03:42:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: rane, waiting until rl03_ is back in the US
(10/19/2008 03:42:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: rane, thanks
(10/19/2008 03:42:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: Item 4  Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June 2008
(10/19/2008 03:42:51 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, ^^
(10/19/2008 03:43:56 PM) tsunam: I've managed to finally get the reports for quarterly from paypal. I need to do the last 3 years of them to get the fy for this year correct
(10/19/2008 03:44:12 PM) tsunam: I had to call paypal and one of their people had to get them for me ~_~
(10/19/2008 03:44:52 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, that doesn't sound good.   When will you be able to update the web pages ?
(10/19/2008 03:45:09 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: I'll try for "soon" see how bad the numbers are
(10/19/2008 03:45:24 PM) tsunam: they need to get up no matter what but I hope they are close to what they should be
(10/19/2008 03:45:28 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, have you scoped the work involved ?
(10/19/2008 03:45:44 PM) tsunam: NeddySeagoon: yeah a lot of number crunching
(10/19/2008 03:46:00 PM) tsunam: they are in quarters though for the reports so its easier
(10/19/2008 03:46:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: can you put them up a quarter at a time ?
(10/19/2008 03:46:19 PM) tsunam: should be able to
(10/19/2008 03:46:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, please do that then we can watch progress :)
(10/19/2008 03:46:49 PM) tsunam: k
(10/19/2008 03:47:09 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, when do we have to file for our FY end ?
(10/19/2008 03:47:48 PM) tsunam: we don't have to file the same way but we have to report taxes in march/april
(10/19/2008 03:48:11 PM) tsunam: same as the rest of us as far as I'm aware in the states
(10/19/2008 03:48:33 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, so everything has to be done for then.   Will that deadline be ok ?
(10/19/2008 03:48:49 PM) tsunam: more then sufficent unless I'm a complete slacker
(10/19/2008 03:49:25 PM) NeddySeagoon: hehe ok.  At least you have the data.  If you need help, shout in good time
(10/19/2008 03:49:37 PM) tsunam: will do
(10/19/2008 03:50:12 PM) NeddySeagoon: Item 5  Any other business.
(10/19/2008 03:50:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: tsunam, anything else at all ?
(10/19/2008 03:50:22 PM) fmccor: No.
(10/19/2008 03:50:25 PM) tsunam: nope
(10/19/2008 03:50:35 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: just a sec
(10/19/2008 03:50:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, anything ?
(10/19/2008 03:50:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes
(10/19/2008 03:51:10 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: ok, sorry, my wife just called, she is flying back from new orleans
(10/19/2008 03:51:19 PM) NeddySeagoon: np
(10/19/2008 03:52:14 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: actually, this may be better off the record for any detailed discussion, but I have established a dev plan & devs to create the tools for the foundation management
(10/19/2008 03:52:27 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: django foundation initially
(10/19/2008 03:52:49 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are other OSS foundations interested in using such a suite as well
(10/19/2008 03:52:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, sounds interesting ... this is to manage our records
(10/19/2008 03:53:28 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: we have the potential to create a revenue stream by hosting service this for other OSS foundations, if that is interesting or possible.
(10/19/2008 03:53:40 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes to manage records, books, donors, contacts
(10/19/2008 03:53:59 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: IP management, there is a rather large initial feature set
(10/19/2008 03:54:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: once the groundwork is done, we will open it to further dev via a module/plugin api
(10/19/2008 03:55:00 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: spent most of friday with jacob km, django foundation head, working out the details
(10/19/2008 03:55:11 PM) NeddySeagoon: do we need to invent something new ?
(10/19/2008 03:55:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think we covered all his needs & all of gentoo's needs
(10/19/2008 03:55:26 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes, we are inventing something new
(10/19/2008 03:55:46 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, so I see, but do we *need* to ?
(10/19/2008 03:56:28 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are no tools specifically for non-profit management that encompass all these things, esp with an eye towards continuity of governance
(10/19/2008 03:56:44 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
(10/19/2008 03:57:39 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: it will be a good thing, the trustees will have input on what features are required
(10/19/2008 03:57:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: & desired
(10/19/2008 03:57:57 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, its probably best to share they detail via email
(10/19/2008 03:57:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: jacob & I will build it
(10/19/2008 03:58:02 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: yes
(10/19/2008 03:58:30 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: jacob requested a degree of quietness about this until we have a nice working model up
(10/19/2008 03:58:57 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: but wait, there's more ... 
(10/19/2008 03:58:58 PM) NeddySeagoon: best put it on trustees@ then, not -nfp
(10/19/2008 03:59:49 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are some upcoming grant opportunities available, I will post to you via trustees@ that look really good.
(10/19/2008 03:59:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: basically really good pr
(10/19/2008 04:00:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: Where will this tool be hosted ?   -infra may not like it
(10/19/2008 04:00:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I can host it, no problem, if that's the case
(10/19/2008 04:01:56 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: there are also some interesting opportunities to partner with other OSS foundations with this tool as well
(10/19/2008 04:02:07 PM) NeddySeagoon: best talk to -infra early, not present them a done deal and keep them informed of developments 
(10/19/2008 04:02:25 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I have spoken with robbat informally
(10/19/2008 04:02:32 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: but yes I agree
(10/19/2008 04:03:06 PM) NeddySeagoon: ask robbat2 if you should copy -infra on the mail
(10/19/2008 04:03:12 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: nice thing is that the code base will be maintained be representative from, hopefully, many OSS non-profits
(10/19/2008 04:03:29 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: s/be/by
(10/19/2008 04:03:55 PM) NeddySeagoon: that sounds good, with a team of two, I was worried about ongoing maintainance
(10/19/2008 04:04:18 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: that's just so we can make sure we have a good handle on the intial development
(10/19/2008 04:04:26 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
(10/19/2008 04:04:53 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: actually there will be a dev team of about 6 after we work the data models out
(10/19/2008 04:05:14 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
(10/19/2008 04:05:18 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: prior to fully opening up the code
(10/19/2008 04:05:27 PM) NeddySeagoon: put the details in an email
(10/19/2008 04:05:33 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: anyway, that's about it
(10/19/2008 04:05:40 PM) NeddySeagoon: ok
(10/19/2008 04:05:56 PM) NeddySeagoon: 6. Open floor ...
(10/19/2008 04:06:04 PM) NeddySeagoon: Anything from anybody
(10/19/2008 04:06:37 PM) NeddySeagoon: I have something ... DoNM
(10/19/2008 04:07:22 PM) NeddySeagoon: Sunday 16th November 1900 UTC  .... is that OK with everyone
(10/19/2008 04:07:36 PM) NeddySeagoon: fmccor, tsunam   ?
(10/19/2008 04:07:41 PM) fmccor: Should be.
(10/19/2008 04:07:54 PM) NeddySeagoon: quantumsummers, ?
(10/19/2008 04:07:55 PM) fmccor: That's probably when US changes time, but am not sure.
(10/19/2008 04:07:58 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: fine with me
(10/19/2008 04:08:11 PM) tsunam: nothing
(10/19/2008 04:08:15 PM) tsunam: and its fine
(10/19/2008 04:08:16 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: I think its nov. 2nd time changes
(10/19/2008 04:08:30 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: err 4th
(10/19/2008 04:09:25 PM) fmccor: 4th is a Tuesday (election day)
(10/19/2008 04:09:43 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair:  lord, wrong month, its the 2nd
(10/19/2008 04:09:45 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: lol
(10/19/2008 04:10:07 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: silly of me, sorry
(10/19/2008 04:10:20 PM) quantumsummers|Corsair: don't forget to vote
(10/19/2008 04:11:05 PM) NeddySeagoon: meeting over 
(10/19/2008 04:11:10 PM) NeddySeagoon: Thanks everyone