Gentoo Archives: gentoo-commits

From: "Roy Bamford (neddyseagoon)" <neddyseagoon@g.o>
To: gentoo-commits@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-commits] gentoo commit in xml/htdocs/foundation/en/minutes/2008: july08.txt june08.txt
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 23:29:22
1 neddyseagoon 08/08/31 23:29:15
3 Modified: index.xml Added Files: 2008/july08.txt
4 2008/june08.txt Added Trustee Meeting Logs from
5 June08 and July08 Updated index.xml to point to
6 them Removed Tom Gall as Sec and maintainer Roy
7 Bamford (NeddySeagoon)
8 Added: july08.txt june08.txt
9 Log:
12 Revision Changes Path
13 No
16 No
19 No
28 No
31 No
34 No
37 No
40 No
43 No
46 No
49 No
52 No
55 No
58 No
61 No
64 No
67 No
70 No
73 No
76 No
79 No
82 No
85 No
88 No
91 No
94 No
97 No
100 1.1 xml/htdocs/foundation/en/minutes/2008/july08.txt
102 file :
103 plain:
105 Index: july08.txt
106 ===================================================================
107 20:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
108 20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> whos here
109 20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, tgall_foo tsunam wltjr ??
110 20:00 <@tsunam> hmm
111 20:01 <@fmccor> Here.
112 20:01 <@tsunam> my hmm = here =)
113 20:01 <@NeddySeagoon> Thats 3 of us ... we have a quorum so lets start
114 20:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Actions From the Last Meeting - We still have section 5 to review ... I suggest we can do the before the next meeting ang get the bylaws up for adoption then
115 20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> Sorry, that should have been Bylaws
116 20:03 <@fmccor> Please let's do.
117 20:03 -!- musikc [n=musikc@gentoo/developer/musikc] has joined #gentoo-trustees
118 20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Can we set a meeting for section 5 next Sunday, if its not resolved in email by then ?
119 20:04 <@fmccor> Yes, but resolution by email sounds like a winner if we can.
120 20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Its not contentious, I'll post my thoughts in the next day or so
121 20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam ... your turn
122 20:05 * wltjr is doing yard work will be in and out
123 20:05 <@tsunam> Well as we've been discussing about the banking. There's a few options
124 20:05 -!- mpagano [n=mpagano@gentoo/developer/mpagano] has joined #gentoo-trustees
125 20:06 <@tsunam> one of which is related to where our outside of the NM address is
126 20:06 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, a public statement for the record would be good
127 20:06 <@tsunam> and the banks there
128 20:06 <@tsunam> or a bank in NM.
129 20:06 <@tsunam> problem is that most require you to be in person to sign paperwork
130 20:06 <@tsunam> Which all seems silly to me as i've opened quite a few accounts online only...
131 20:06 <@NeddySeagoon> personal <> company
132 20:07 <@tsunam> which brought up a discussion about moving the foundation for making it easier to deal with
133 20:07 * fmccor thought we were on track with Wells Fargo?
134 20:07 <@tsunam> that seems the most likely place as it has a wide range of offices
135 20:07 <@tsunam> that quite a few of us could go to a local office and sign the paperwork
136 20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> brb
137 20:08 <@tsunam> I also made a minor update to the bank nfp documentation but realized the work I did on the quarterly reports was wrong so I'm having to redo them ~_~
138 20:08 <@fmccor> I thought wltjr had it set up to do Wells Fargo by fax --- I sent him some paperwork based on that.
139 20:09 <@tsunam> that'd be up to the man doing yardwork if that's the case
140 20:09 <@tsunam> once its established can have grant send the check to them for deposit...
141 20:09 <@tsunam> assuming its still good
142 20:10 <@fmccor> He needs to shut off his lawn mower, or whatever, and let us know. :)
143 20:11 <@NeddySeagoon> back
144 20:11 <@fmccor> I know we discussed it last Wednesday; you and Tom and William and I.
145 20:11 <@tsunam> so that's the current state
146 20:11 <@tsunam> fmccor: i was only partially here as I discussed then due to working at work :-P
147 20:11 <@fmccor> And Roy, too.
148 20:12 <@NeddySeagoon> I have a copy of my DL for wltjr to collect but its designed to be copy proof, so its not a good copy
149 20:13 <@fmccor> I thought wltjr was collecting drivers licenses and consent forms, so I sent all that to him. He should have received it yesterday (or perhaps tomorrow).
150 20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, me too - whats a consent form, I don't recall seeing that
151 20:14 <@fmccor> Mine copied fine; I noticed it was a pretty good photograph, too, so I'll try to scan it for a "mug shot"
152 20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> My UK one does not have a photo
153 20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Next
154 20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN - NeddySeagoon
155 20:15 <@fmccor> There were a couple emails from the bank to all of us; one of them had a pdf form attached. I don't know if William needs those or not, so I just signed it a bunch of places and sent it on.
156 20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> I posted my section
157 20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> I missed that PDF but I still have the emails
158 20:16 <@fmccor> I planned to do mine, but got distracted by some on-going drama.
159 20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
160 20:16 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, We need the form from Tom (as secretary) and one other officer. I don't know if he needs any others or not.
161 20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, & tgall_foo
162 20:17 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: the form or the article?
163 20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, both I suppose :) sorry for the mixup
164 20:17 <@fmccor> I'll do my part of the article tomorrow if things otherwise stay calm.
165 20:17 <@tsunam> lol
166 20:17 <@fmccor> Bah.
167 20:18 <@tsunam> I need to review the emails myself
168 20:19 <@fmccor> tgall_foo 's laptop seems not to be starting. :)
169 20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm proposing that I'm not a signatory to cheques ... it would be too complicated
170 20:19 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: *nods*
171 20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, maybe he ran over it with the lawnmower
172 20:19 <@fmccor> I filled out the box, but I don't need to be a signatory.
173 20:20 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, what about the GMN special ?
174 20:20 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: the sample you posted. I have no issued doing one for myself
175 20:20 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
176 20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> The hard bit is working oout what we agree on for a going forward joint statement
177 20:21 * fmccor is easy there.
178 20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm happy to put the article togther from everyones inputs
179 20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more for actions from the last meeting ?
180 20:23 <@fmccor> Yes, I had an assignment.
181 20:23 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I must have missed that ... carry on
182 20:24 <@fmccor> We are looking to put together a licensing agreement for intrenational use when people like pva or our Czech correspondent wish to sell Gentoo branded T-shirts or whatever.
183 20:24 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yes
184 20:24 <@fmccor> I spoke with Renat and he did put me in contact with his friend who did our Trademark stuff.
185 20:25 <@NeddySeagoon> the pro-bono group ?
186 20:25 <@fmccor> I'm in contact with her, but she is out of the office until about the 22nd of this month.
187 20:25 <@NeddySeagoon> So nothing will happen until then
188 20:26 <@fmccor> We'll talk then, and if that does not work out, Renat has a couple other contacts, too (one where he is currently interning, and one in Boston where he was interning earlier this summer).
189 20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> OK, on to Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
190 20:26 <@fmccor> Wait, there's more
191 20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> ok ...
192 20:27 <@fmccor> I think we want to transfer the Trademark to the Foundation from Gentoo-whatever-Daniel-originally-called-it (maybe just a technicality --- I need to ask)
193 20:27 <@fmccor> If we do, I think that's just filling out a form and sending someone $100.
194 20:27 <@tsunam> Gentoo Technologies Inc
195 20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I thought that was already done
196 20:28 <@fmccor> At least, that's what lawyer Tanda Neustein(?) told Renat.
197 20:29 <@fmccor> Apparently not. I have to make sure when she is back in her office.
198 20:29 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I'll rummage my emails after the meeting
199 20:29 <@fmccor> A couple weeks ago or a bit less, two emails from rl03 to the trustees@
200 20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
201 20:30 <@fmccor> Which were basically cover notes for emails from Tanda to him.
202 20:30 * fmccor is done now. :)
203 20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> OK, on to Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees
204 20:31 <@NeddySeagoon> 177966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities what do we have to do to kill this one ?
205 20:33 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we put it on hold until the Bylaws are done and we have some idea of where the Foundation is headed ?
206 20:33 <@tsunam> I would say yes
207 20:33 <@tsunam> as the new bylawys should clear up a lot
208 20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> ok I'll make a note in the agenda
209 20:34 <@fmccor> OK. I don't even know quite what the bug is referring to.
210 20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date we still need to fix our own store
211 20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> The licencing agreement won't do that
212 20:35 <@fmccor> No, it just lets other people sell Gentoo-branded things.
213 20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> There are 3 options ... close the strore, run it ourselves or appoint some officers (a store project) to do it. Thoughts ?
214 20:37 * musikc coughs and mutters something about have PR assist
215 20:37 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, are you volunteering ?
216 20:37 <@fmccor> There's a 4th option, sounds like a good one to me.
217 20:38 < musikc> id say the trustees would clearly still address the money aspect, but regarding the largest complaint of keeping the store up to date, that could easily and quite logically be delegated to PR as it could be viewed as a public facing entity.
218 20:38 < musikc> and id need to confer with dberkholz first, just an idea at present ;)
219 20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, thats ok if members of PR became officers of the Foundation ... I don't have a problem with that
220 20:39 <@tsunam> wouldn't need to be a developer, could just be staff and someone recruited for running said store
221 20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, exactly
222 20:40 < musikc> doesnt require tree access iirc so any staffer or ebuild dev, wouldnt matter. or are you saying someone without a gentoo email address do it?
223 20:40 <@NeddySeagoon> They don't even need to be Foundation members
224 20:40 <@fmccor> It makes sense for the Foundation to designate a PR position; doens't have to be an officer.
225 20:40 < musikc> id say if an external party would be interested, in line with my suggestion and thinking, bring them in to PR to perform such a task
226 20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, that works too ... they do not need a @g.o email
227 20:41 < musikc> the email address makes it easy for anyone to know how to contact them, makes it a "no brainer"
228 20:41 <@fmccor> True.
229 20:41 < musikc> and there are minimal requirements to become a staffer :)
230 20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> We could recruit someone to staff then
231 20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> snap*
232 20:42 < musikc> 1) find a void; 2) propose how to fill it; 3) get someone to vouch for you so you can join :)
233 20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, yep
234 20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> Maybe put an Ad in situations vacant in the GMN
235 20:42 < musikc> if you are interested in the notion of PR assisting with keeping the store up to date, id be happy to start dialog with donnie to assess his interest level and gain his thoughts on the matter
236 20:43 <@fmccor> I'd support it.
237 20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, It seems a logical step, I support it
238 20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^ you ok with that ?
239 20:43 <@tsunam> yep
240 20:43 <@fmccor> I think whoever did it would be "dual staff" --- Gentoo PR staff and Foundation staff.
241 20:43 <@fmccor> But we are already doing that. :)
242 20:43 < musikc> ok, i'll fire off an email to find a mutally convenient time to discuss the idea more indepth with donnie. im PR staff, he is the lead so i'd want his buy in. ;)
243 20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, You have an action from the meeting then
244 20:44 < musikc> np
245 20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
246 20:44 <@fmccor> musikc, Thanks.
247 20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Its your solo now ... Treasurers Report for FY ending 30 June 2008
248 20:45 <@tsunam> We spent next to no money and have over 80 people donate to Gentoo this year. WE NEED to set a budget for spending money. At least one new server a year for infra as they are still using p3's as core infra boxes
249 20:46 <@tsunam> as you're aware some of them are really showing age, such as the forums frontend box
250 20:46 <@tsunam> Taking in money without really spending any is not a benefit to anyone
251 20:46 < antarus> ummm
252 20:46 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, A budget will cover both income and expendature
253 20:46 < antarus> to be fair, there is nothing wrong with a pIII for some services
254 20:46 < antarus> aside from power usage
255 20:46 < antarus> an dheat
256 20:47 <@tsunam> There's a few outstanding repayments as I need to get with paypal and deal with their again new requirements to send money
257 20:47 <@tsunam> antarus: a 6 year old box is a problem
258 20:47 <@tsunam> the likelyhood of failure grows as it goes on
259 20:48 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, do you have a balance sheet that should be published ?
260 20:48 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: as i said before the quarterly reports are being worked on currently I made a mistake on a fairly early one that needs to be corrected and reflected in the rest =/
261 20:49 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, bummer. Should we defer this to the next meeting ?
262 20:49 <@tsunam> Aye
263 20:49 <@tsunam> I should hopefully have them all corrected an updated for the last 3 years by then ~_`
264 20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, You should lead setting a budget too. IS there time before the next meeting ?
265 20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> Notice lead ... not do it all
266 20:50 <@tsunam> weekends work best for me, or later pst evenings
267 20:50 <@wltjr> sry, this time is very hard for me on Sundays
268 20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, lets discuss meeting times under AOB
269 20:51 <@tsunam> I basically need to talk with a few of the leads where money would be allocated (infra, pr) being two of the main to discuss it
270 20:51 <@wltjr> wrt to bank account I have to get in touch with Wells Fargo to inquire about Roy being outside the US
271 20:51 <@wltjr> they seem to want all on file to be on bank account and we likely have some issues there
272 20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, did you get my encrypted email ?
273 20:52 <@fmccor> wltjr, You should have received some paperwork from me. If not, then tomorrow, I think.
274 20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> moving on, whe touched on this last meeting Trustees and Councillors - Potential Conflict of Interest
275 20:54 <@fmccor> Everyone I mentioned it to suggested that doing both was a bad idea.
276 20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> The two bodies are supposed to be separate ... serving on both breaks the separation.
277 20:55 <@fmccor> I don't know if there's an actual conflict or not, but I suggest we just not do it.
278 20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, wltjr ^^
279 20:55 <@tsunam> I won't serve on both ever so =)
280 20:56 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes I got your email, but not sure I was able to de-crypt
281 20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> Nor me
282 20:56 <@wltjr> fmccor: nothing from you in mail yet, big city so takes an extra day sometimes
283 20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we need something in the bylaws about it ?
284 20:56 <@tsunam> In this case I would believe so
285 20:56 <@wltjr> I see less of a conflict, more taking on to many high level positions, major voids if we lose 1
286 20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> We won't always be the trustees
287 20:57 <@fmccor> Perhaps. It would be one line in the qualifications for trustees.
288 20:57 <@tsunam> As a trustee you should not serve on any other governing body of the Gentoo organization
289 20:57 <@wltjr> but if the trustees and counsel work together, as proper checks and balances, they should not share any people
290 20:57 <@tsunam> would be a short snippet
291 20:57 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats a part of the isse
292 20:57 <@wltjr> tsunam: agreed
293 20:57 <@wltjr> maybe change should, to cannot
294 20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> Do we need a vote ? I'll propose some words for Section 5 of the bylaws
295 20:58 <@wltjr> FYI we need bylaws for bank account
296 20:58 <@wltjr> it's part of the paperwork they want to see
297 20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we are proposing adoption at the nect meeting
298 20:58 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if you want I think we are all in agreement, but can't hurt to vote if you wish :)
299 20:58 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
300 20:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: cool, shouldn't be much left to do, gives me time to find out about international aspects of the bank account
301 20:59 <@wltjr> would suck if because of banking reasons we have to restrict officers or board members to US only
302 20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion to add words to the bylaws that no individual can serve on the council and as a trustee concurrently
303 20:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, We can give then bylaws in current state if we can kill of Section 5 by email next week.
304 20:59 <@wltjr> banks expect there to be an owner, which Gentoo has none, so doesn't help us there with that
305 20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> vote ?
306 20:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, We are a corporation.
307 20:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I say top level, which includes infra IMHO
308 21:00 <@tsunam> wltjr: basically wells fargo doesn't do international banking well
309 21:00 <@wltjr> fmccor: still has some form of ownership usually, share holders etc
310 21:00 <@wltjr> tsunam: agreed, and they have some Home Land Security issues as well
311 21:00 <@wltjr> they had new questions DHS made them ask, like international wire transfers
312 21:01 <@wltjr> which I said we might, as if there is people in Russia, Czech, etc selling Gentoo stuff, I assume they might wire the funds monthly or something vs mailing a check
313 21:01 <@fmccor> wltjr, I thought the form just wanted some signatures from officers.
314 21:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: they seem to want all principles, and not sure about our president residing outside the US
315 21:01 <@wltjr> luckily UK is not a big deal, but still in future years, could be another country
316 21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I can sign the form and post it (air mail)
317 21:02 <@wltjr> what happens if we have no one in the US elected to the board one year ?
318 21:02 <@fmccor> We only fill out their form once.
319 21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not even sure you can be on the account, I have to find that out
320 21:02 <@fmccor> I wouldn't worry about it.
321 21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am hoping we can create the account withuot you on it entirely, as I don't think they will let foreigners be on the account, I have to ask, not assume
322 21:02 <@fmccor> At least, not now.
323 21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok
324 21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: hang tight, let me call them Monday
325 21:03 <@wltjr> also off topic, some jerk hit my 6mnth old new car the other day, so my time frame next week, etc is going to be crap, followed shortly by a trip to CA 1st-11th for LWE and other business
326 21:03 <@fmccor> wltjr, They ask for addresses only for signaturies.
327 21:04 <@wltjr> I will try to call Wells Fargo on monday, but I also must meet with the insurance adjuster and get my baby to a body shop, and I have full day of work :(
328 21:04 <@fmccor> wltjr, The other signatures are just signatures and dates.
329 21:04 <@wltjr> fmccor: they want all ids, etc
330 21:04 <@wltjr> fmccor: I need to contact them and ask them some details
331 21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets get it sorted out on Monday
332 21:04 <@wltjr> plus the more we add to the bank account the more we have to remove
333 21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I will try but I have allot going on that day, and unfortunately Gentoo will not be a major priority, life comes first :(
334 21:05 <@wltjr> I think we might be best sticking with just a treasurer and one to two others on the account max if we can
335 21:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Fine, I understand ... I was just repeating what you said
336 21:05 <@NeddySeagoon> Moving on ... International Requests For Gentoo Merchandise
337 21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: roger that :)
338 21:06 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, has already covered that
339 21:06 <@NeddySeagoon> 7. Gentoo Tee Shirts - Request from cz
340 21:06 <@fmccor> I'm fine with it.
341 21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> We have had a request to OK tee shirts in .cz I propose we go ahead while the paperwork is being sorted out
342 21:07 <@fmccor> Agreed.
343 21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, tsunam tgall_foo ^^
344 21:07 <@tsunam> Its fine with me
345 21:07 < musikc> Are these on the Gentoo store site or a secondary site?
346 21:07 <@tsunam> secondary
347 21:08 * musikc nods
348 21:08 <@tsunam> with an agreement to give money back to the foundation
349 21:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't have a problem, they made a generous offer of $2 or something per T
350 21:08 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, a vendor in cz want to use our logo on tee shirts
351 21:08 < musikc> Just curious now, will they also provide regular statement of activity?
352 21:09 <@wltjr> musikc: well given the informal nature of all of Gentoo's activities, I don't see this being much different
353 21:09 < musikc> i just recall when wolf was a trustee he spent a lot of man hours tracking down illegal use
354 21:09 <@wltjr> so long as they give something back, I don't see us looking to audit or have them do additional paperwork or reports to us to show us they are being honest and straight forward
355 21:09 <@wltjr> musikc: we are trying to avoid that and reverse it
356 21:09 <@fmccor> musikc, In this case, they asked for permission, so I don't think they want to work illegally.
357 21:10 < musikc> id be inclined to think they do not wish to use it illegally either, doesnt hurt to ask for a statement of activity does it?
358 21:10 <@fmccor> Not at all.
359 21:10 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, nope.
360 21:10 < musikc> wltjr, ive no idea what you are referring to when you say "avoid that and reverse it"
361 21:10 <@fmccor> They'd had to provide something, because we want a kick-back.
362 21:10 <@wltjr> musikc: also add some bounty to any tracking down, as once we have a general policy of requiring like 2%, if we have to have counsel go after them, at least there will be some finanial benefit, vs just a cease and desist
363 21:11 <@wltjr> musikc: if we have no policy, no requirement of them giving back to the foundation, then we must go after them for no gain
364 21:11 <@wltjr> if we put forth a general policy, that let's all know what is legal and not, and what the requirements there are
365 21:12 < musikc> wltjr, read this carefully as i dont say it often, that makes sense and seems rather agreeable.
366 21:12 * musikc giggles
367 21:12 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, licence anyone who asks - under the same terms but still hunt down those who don't ask
368 21:12 * musikc nods
369 21:12 <@wltjr> musikc: more of them coming to us, and having permission without asking, should hopefully lead to less enforcement, and if/when there is the need, there will be some benefit
370 21:12 < musikc> NeddySeagoon, all sounds logical, was just interested when i saw talk of selling merchandise since ive rather said PR should aid in that area ;)
371 21:12 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I thought the idea behind the policy was not having to ask in the first place
372 21:13 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if they send us $ who cares if they ask or not, short of being nice to so we are aware of them
373 21:13 <@fmccor> wltjr, No, I don't think so.
374 21:13 < musikc> wltjr, how could you know the policy was enforced if you've never talked to them? otherwise it would look like any donation and not specifically tied to the actual cause.
375 21:13 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I will forward you the email, if thats ok with the other trustees here
376 21:13 <@fmccor> We still want to know about them.
377 21:13 <@fmccor> Fine with me.
378 21:13 < musikc> fmccor, makes sense. give props where due and all
379 21:13 <@wltjr> musikc: easy, company selling stuff, we would know if they are giving back or not, just the same as if they never contacted us, no diff there really
380 21:14 <@wltjr> we could require in a policy that they contact us and get permission
381 21:14 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the difference is they if they contact us they get a licence ... it could even be a web form
382 21:14 < musikc> wltjr, seems two different things entirely. one involves someone giving money back and the other involves never knowing that they SHOULD have
383 21:14 <@fmccor> wltjr, They still have to tell us they agree to the license.
384 21:14 <@wltjr> but if they donate funds they collected on behalf of the foundation, I would assume they would provide a note or reason when presenting those funds to the foundation
385 21:14 < musikc> wltjr, ok, if you require they contact that makes a lot more sense IMO
386 21:15 <@wltjr> musikc: a public policy is like a speed limit
387 21:15 < musikc> wltjr, be careful with assumptions... we all know what they often lead to
388 21:15 <@wltjr> if we put it out there, it's others job to be aware of and follow the policy, there are many laws that exist we have no clue of, but we must obide by them, and is our responsibility to be aware of them, not the law
389 21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> The details still need to be worked out ...
390 21:16 <@fmccor> wltjr, A license agreement is like a franchise agreement or a contract --- we have a form, and they tell us they agree to it.
391 21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yep
392 21:16 <@wltjr> allot of this is based on stuff I was reading from Apples usage stuff, of like the word Apple, their logo etc
393 21:16 < musikc> honestly if someone wants to sell Gentoo branded merchandise, it should not be a stretch to simply say "hey let us know how you're using our logo"
394 21:16 <@fmccor> musikc, correct.
395 21:16 * fmccor agrees
396 21:16 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I think they have to, or our logo becomes public domain
397 21:16 < musikc> exactly
398 21:17 <@fmccor> Indeed, it does. Like heroin. :)
399 21:17 < musikc> and id rather avoid the potential for defacing the logo which would undoubtedly happen if it were public domain
400 21:17 <@NeddySeagoon> We have to protect our logo and trade marks
401 21:17 <@wltjr> well international enforcement is a tricky arena
402 21:17 <@wltjr> within the US and with our allies it's one thing
403 21:17 <@fmccor> We can't control pirates.
404 21:18 < musikc> no way to prevent it from happening, but it is good to be able to have an enforcable policy
405 21:18 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it depends how hard you have to push - often a polite did you know ... is enogh
406 21:18 <@wltjr> but like violation of our policies in Russia, not sure what we could do, nor how that would effect a US trademark status, as in giving other us entities legal right to use without permisison because a Russian one is abusing it
407 21:18 < musikc> and fmccor, i do believe NeddySeagoon is correct that if we do not enforce it on even one person it would then become public domain.
408 21:18 <@fmccor> But there are some steps we can take to protect our trademark --- I think I put that in my email to the lawyer.
409 21:18 <@wltjr> musikc: domestic or international enforcement?
410 21:19 <@wltjr> it's a domestic trademark right?
411 21:19 <@wltjr> musikc: but I know what you are talking about
412 21:19 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think it's international.
413 21:19 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, I think we have to demonstrate we take 'reasonable steps' to protect our marks
414 21:19 <@wltjr> a perfect example is the walking fingers
415 21:19 < musikc> wltjr, that sounds like a question for your lawyers :)
416 21:19 <@tsunam> wltjr: its registered with the german version as well
417 21:19 <@wltjr> which used to be trade marked BellSouth, but they did not enforce it, and now they do not own it, every phone book has the walking fingers :)
418 21:19 <@tsunam> so its international afaik
419 21:20 <@wltjr> musikc: which we have no relationship with any at this time
420 21:20 <@wltjr> tsunam: is that tied to the same one that Fenwick did for us?
421 21:20 <@tsunam> nope
422 21:20 <@tsunam> was done by one of the gentoo developers in germany..
423 21:21 < musikc> wltjr, if the trustees have no relationship with the Gentoo pro bono lawyers i was not aware. did they quit?
424 21:21 <@NeddySeagoon> the eV there ... I think it was ian
425 21:21 <@wltjr> looks like we might need to register or something with the ITA, International Trademark Associaiont
426 21:21 <@fmccor> musikc, I'm in contact with her, but she's out of the office until about the 22nd.
427 21:21 <@wltjr> musikc: we are working on establishing a relationship with them, fmccor is
428 21:22 <@wltjr> musikc: renat worked with them, but right as his term was coming to an end, or after it ended
429 21:22 < musikc> fmccor, ahhhh, what you said makes more sense than the statement that "we have no relationship"
430 21:22 <@wltjr> musikc: because we presently don't, we have no dialog, we aren't a customer/client of theirs at this time, etc
431 21:22 < musikc> people take holidays, i say good for them and i need to do the same soon!
432 21:22 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, it got droped in the handover and is being picked up again
433 21:22 <@fmccor> Did I say that? I certainly shouldn't have if I did.
434 21:22 < musikc> fmccor, no, wltjr said that
435 21:22 <@wltjr> fmccor: I did
436 21:23 <@wltjr> fmccor: you are trying to establish a relationship now
437 21:23 <@wltjr> we have no clue if they will continue to do any pro bono work, take us on a client, etc
438 21:23 <@fmccor> wltjr, Yes.
439 21:23 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, re-estoblish
440 21:23 <@wltjr> we know what they did
441 21:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I am not clear the foundation ever was established, short of a few trustees being in contact
442 21:23 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Ah, ok
443 21:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: seems to be just renat, not sure if they were in contact with any other
444 21:23 < musikc> wltjr, do you ahve reason to believe that with the change in trustees they no longer wish to work with us?
445 21:24 <@wltjr> musikc: I have no clue, I would hope and assume they would move forward
446 21:24 <@fmccor> wltjr, And if they are not set up to the international things, Renat knows a couple who are, so we have leads and contacts.
447 21:24 < musikc> i asked wolf, he said it was always renat who conducted the conversations
448 21:24 <@wltjr> musikc: but we have needs, and they might have been just assisting with the trademark, and did their charitable stuff
449 21:25 <@wltjr> in anything we do it's important the relationship be more the foundation than the point of contact, that the other party knows the point of contact will change, but not the end client
450 21:25 <@fmccor> musikc, wltjr Renat is passing that off to me. because I can talk "lawyer" I guess. :)
451 21:25 < musikc> wltjr, Gentoo has had the relationship with the pro bono lawyers for years, it was not just for the trademark assistance
452 21:25 <@wltjr> musikc: first I am hearing of that, not sure about others
453 21:25 <@wltjr> musikc: ideally all this stuff would have been dealt with during changing of the guards
454 21:25 < musikc> i am unsure if it was always the same lawyers, but the assistance has been there for numerous years
455 21:26 <@NeddySeagoon> We seemed to have wandered off Gentoo Tee Shirts - Request from cz and onto Any other business
456 21:26 < musikc> wltjr, just ask previous trustees. i just have the added benefit of hollaring at one in the next room. ;)
457 21:26 <@wltjr> musikc: I think it was different, as renat seems to be pursuing a career in law, he has connections all over the place
458 21:26 <@wltjr> musikc: we have, we have gotten info over period as it's been needed
459 21:26 <@tsunam> musikc: you still do...more or less
460 21:26 < musikc> wltjr, ok. i was confused when you said it was the first you have heard of it.
461 21:27 <@wltjr> lessons learned for next time around
462 21:27 * musikc steps back so NeddySeagoon can bring his conversation back to order ;)
463 21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> Lets move to AoB
464 21:27 <@wltjr> musikc: first I have heard of a relationship with Fenwick that wasn't pertaining to the trademark, but could have been other counsel
465 21:27 <@wltjr> I mean we have retained an attorney in NM, but he can't help with much outside of local issues
466 21:27 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you want do discuss a change to the meeting time ?
467 21:28 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: if possible, sundays are very hard in the summer and likely same afterward
468 21:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, when do you r propose ?
469 21:28 * wltjr is making an effor to not work on weekends, and to have a life :)
470 21:28 * musikc giggles
471 21:28 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: weekday would be best, but not sure that works for others
472 21:28 < musikc> wltjr, pay a 10 year old to cut your grass then :)
473 21:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Its ok for me
474 21:28 <@fmccor> Works for me if not too late.
475 21:28 <@wltjr> musikc: I need the excercise, and for the size of my lawn it wouldn't be cheap
476 21:29 <@wltjr> but yard work is hardly what I tend to do on Sundays, go to the beach is more like it :)
477 21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, It won't be late, it needs to be about 19:00 UTC for me
478 21:29 * fmccor starts his work day at about 7:00AM (1100 UTC).
479 21:29 < musikc> wltjr, my little brother used to do it. managed to get a used riding mower and made quite the profit afterwards ;)
480 21:29 <@fmccor> 1900UTC is perfect for me.
481 21:29 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, tsunam tgall_foo ^^
482 21:30 <@wltjr> musikc: I have thought of hiring a law service and maid, but that's more $ each month, and have to have it coming in
483 21:30 <@wltjr> contrary to popular opinion I am not wealthy and do not make allot of $
484 21:30 <@fmccor> On the west coast, that's noon, and for tgall_foo , it's 1:00PM
485 21:30 <@wltjr> wrt to Gentoo I make 0, and the more I think about that, I believe Gentoo is costing me and my business $, but that's for another day
486 21:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, what day for you ?
487 21:30 <@tsunam> 1900 works
488 21:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: any weekday is good, I hvae regular work schedules for the most part
489 21:31 < musikc> wltjr, i dont think anyone believes you are wealthy, you've said repeatedly how you own your own business and work hard to keep it going. :)
490 21:31 <@wltjr> musikc: work my arse off, I work more and harder than if I worked for someone and make a bit less $
491 21:31 <@NeddySeagoon> What about a Monday ? ... but really I have no preference
492 21:31 <@wltjr> actually allot less, but that should change in time, and most of the time I enjoy what I do
493 21:31 <@fmccor> Verify the time with tgall_foo , I guess, and let him pick a day if it matters.
494 21:32 <@wltjr> as long as it's not like the second or first Tuesdays, as we have Java team meetings at 18:00 UTC
495 21:32 <@NeddySeagoon> I cannot get on IRC from work and most of you would be in bed if I did :)
496 21:32 * fmccor does not care what day, but has come to loathe weekend meetings.
497 21:32 <@wltjr> but that might be ok as well, just 2 hours of gentoo meetings :(
498 21:32 <@wltjr> resulting in 0 commits :(
499 21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm proposing Monday
500 21:33 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: should be fine, and ty for considering moving the day of the week
501 21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> DONM Moday Aug 18 at 1900 UTC
502 21:33 <@NeddySeagoon> Monday*
503 21:34 <@wltjr> it will really help in my attendance because I keep much better track of my time, appointements, meetings, etc during the week
504 21:34 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, AoB ?
505 21:34 <@tsunam> none
506 21:34 <@wltjr> oh one last thing
507 21:34 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, AoB ?
508 21:34 <@wltjr> major thing actually
509 21:34 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, contine
510 21:34 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, Nope.
511 21:34 <@wltjr> we need to put forth a vote at some point IMHO, in house foundation or like SPI
512 21:35 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we do ... thats months off yet
513 21:35 <@wltjr> I think we want to stay in house, but to do so will likely require some changes, organization, structure, etc that many aren't cool with
514 21:35 <@NeddySeagoon> We need a stable Foundation first
515 21:35 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: ok, I thought we wanted to know before getting to committed with bank account, etc
516 21:35 * wltjr will be pissed to put hours, weeks, or more time into stuff just to see it reversed
517 21:36 <@fmccor> wltjr, Perhaps. But I certainly think we want to stay in house.
518 21:36 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we want to set up as if its in house ... then decide the long term future
519 21:36 <@wltjr> fmccor: I do as well, but I think we should have a global vote to decided, although we technically could as elected representatives
520 21:36 <@fmccor> Why?
521 21:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, feel free to air your views in your GMN part of the Trustee special
522 21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: because it's been clear some of the things that are necessary are very controversial
523 21:37 <@fmccor> wltjr, We are already set up in house --- why would we need a vote to keep doing that?
524 21:37 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yeah I need to do something there
525 21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: we aren't really
526 21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: we don't have a bank account, no financial reporting, no budget, etc
527 21:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, those things are all coming
528 21:37 <@fmccor> And we are actively pursuing all of that.
529 21:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: we are slowing resurrecting the pieces, but again allot of work that could easily be reversed
530 21:38 <@fmccor> how?
531 21:38 <@wltjr> fmccor: is there interest in the foundation?
532 21:38 <@wltjr> fmccor: will people want to run in a year or so
533 21:38 <@wltjr> do people even want to see the foundation being active
534 21:38 <@fmccor> Sure.
535 21:38 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats a longer term issue. We have to be sound and legal before we join an umbrella
536 21:39 <@NeddySeagoon> if we choose to go that way
537 21:39 <@wltjr> fmccor: I am not so sure, it seems most want the foundation to stick to it's limited roll and agenda, which IMHO doesn't make much sense at all to have a foundation vs outside management
538 21:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: BS, the entire point of joining an umbrella is for them to do the boring work and to get us legal and keep us legal
539 21:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: SPI has no requirements for our condition when we come to them
540 21:40 < musikc> hmmm... if i may?
541 21:40 <@fmccor> Please.
542 21:40 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc sure
543 21:40 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: the point is the SPI would do for us everything we are now, without us struggling to do it
544 21:40 <@wltjr> they would manage bank account, funds, reporting, tax filings, donation reports, etc
545 21:40 < musikc> it makes far more sense to have an organized house to hand over, if thats the decided upon course, than a disorganized one. if you hand over disorganization how do you know if you are getting what you want out of the agreement when you didnt know what you had to begin with?
546 21:41 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I don't share your confidence but maybe you have looked into it a lot more than me
547 21:41 <@fmccor> musikc, I agree absolutely with that.
548 21:41 <@wltjr> musikc: most of our organization goes away and is not required to join an umbrella
549 21:41 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc++
550 21:41 <@wltjr> for example, we don't need a bank account for SPI or SFC
551 21:41 <@wltjr> as they have their own acounts that funds go into
552 21:41 <@wltjr> so us creating and having a bank account, means squat to joining an umbrella
553 21:42 < musikc> wltjr, i see your line of thought and appreciate the thought put into it, however i still hold the opinion that you should know what you are handing over first.
554 21:42 <@fmccor> wltjr, We have to carry on as we are now anyway, no matter what we might choose in the future.
555 21:42 <@wltjr> any legal filings, they have to either undo, or correct/change, so having stuff is almost more work than not
556 21:42 <@wltjr> musikc: I spoke with the SPI let us not forget
557 21:42 <@fmccor> wltjr, And I don't think any of us want to hand it over in any case.
558 21:42 <@wltjr> they are different than the SFC to an extent, much more organized, but have little to no requirements
559 21:42 <@wltjr> and we are already further along than were things were at when I was talking to them
560 21:43 < musikc> wltjr, you and others have spoken to different groups. it doesnt change the value to knowing what you hand over. and if it requires a bit of work for them to transition it to their group then so be it, at least they know what work they would have to do instead of uncertainity.
561 21:43 <@wltjr> fmccor: agreed, but the foundation has little to no authority, and if it tries to exert any it quickly becomes controversial
562 21:43 <@wltjr> musikc: I spoke ot the SFC as well
563 21:43 <@fmccor> So, remove the "quickly" bit.
564 21:43 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I don't want to jooin an umbrella while we still have a chance to make a go of our own Foundation.
565 21:44 <@wltjr> musikc: the SFC is very differet from the SPI, much newer and mostly dealing with smaller entities with way less BS
566 21:44 < musikc> NeddySeagoon ++
567 21:44 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I agree, but I am not sure we have the support
568 21:44 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, agreed
569 21:44 <@wltjr> thus a vote would show what direction will be supported by the community
570 21:44 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, don't worry about a little controversy ... it stirrs the sediment
571 21:44 <@wltjr> I have no interest in pursuing directions that are not supported, that means we will be pissing in the wind the entire time for any effort or action
572 21:44 < musikc> wltjr, this discussion seems premature. it appears that others in trustees wish to continue efforts.
573 21:45 <@fmccor> Agreed.
574 21:45 < musikc> i support the interest to continue and move forward and look forward to reviewing any ideas you folks share
575 21:45 <@wltjr> ok, so does anyone else want ot spend hours this week talking to Wells Fargo?
576 21:45 <@wltjr> regardless of how we feel, in a year we will potentially be replaced
577 21:45 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we need this discussion sometime but it needs a dedicated meeting and airing on the -ml *after* we can stand on our own feet
578 21:46 <@wltjr> so anything we do can be undone, unless the community and others share the common long term direction and goals
579 21:46 < musikc> wltjr, your opinion. any of you can run again and if the foundation members feel your work was just and valuable you'd likely be voted in again. :)
580 21:46 <@wltjr> standing on our own two feet is hardly trivial
581 21:46 <@wltjr> I am just trying to justify my time is all
582 21:46 < musikc> wltjr, anything anyone does in Gentoo could be undone. it's not just for trustees. :)
583 21:46 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, of course not, its running a busines
584 21:46 <@wltjr> musikc: yes, but legal issues are much harder
585 21:47 <@wltjr> musikc: look at what must be done to open an bank account
586 21:47 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, not harded, just more protracted
587 21:47 <@wltjr> it's HOURS of work, and is not glorious like commiting to tree or etc
588 21:47 <@wltjr> and a business with no structure will fail, as has the foundation time and time again
589 21:47 < musikc> wltjr, so good work doesnt happen easily. you of all people are well aware of that from your experience with your own small business. :)
590 21:47 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I do hours of work and never commit to the tree :(
591 21:47 <@wltjr> put another way, how many years has the foundation existed, and how many has it operated smoothly and as it shoudl for?
592 21:48 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: technical stuff is different I enjoy that
593 21:48 <@wltjr> I do not enjoy calling about bank accounts, signing stuff that needs to be mailed, etc
594 21:48 < musikc> wltjr, so because others failed or did what could be viewed as sub par work no one should try to rectify that? you wanted this role to make a difference, do not now be afraid to act for fear of it being undone.
595 21:48 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think its only operated properly since March this year ... or at least visibly so
596 21:49 <@wltjr> musikc: no, my point is action without support is pointless
597 21:49 <@fmccor> It started off well.
598 21:49 <@wltjr> musikc: if we correct, but the community doesn't care, it will happen again
599 21:49 <@wltjr> it's not us that sees our work through, it's the community
600 21:49 < musikc> wltjr, or if the community supports it now, what is to say that the opinion wont change in a year or two?
601 21:49 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I think you have been doing a good job of making others aware that the Foundation is alive and kicking, even if its not made you friends
602 21:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it's literally almost driven me from Gentoo
603 21:50 < musikc> things change, do not be afraid to act due to fear of change. you guys hold a valuable job and one that is needed.
604 21:50 <@wltjr> I am so beat up wrt to Foundation stuff, I have no clue where I stand on any of it
605 21:50 <@fmccor> wltjr, Everything I see suggests that the community appreciates what we are doing.
606 21:50 <@wltjr> IMHO is all starting to seem like totally wasted time on stuff people just don't care about
607 21:50 < musikc> wltjr, you seem disenchanted
608 21:50 <@wltjr> fmccor: really?
609 21:50 <@wltjr> so who supported my sponsor survey?
610 21:50 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, have a few weeks off ... The foundation is hard work
611 21:50 <@wltjr> 1 person, and 1 new sponsor
612 21:51 <@wltjr> who within gentoo is doing anything to try to help or support the foundation?
613 21:51 < musikc> wltjr, not everyone will agree with every suggestion. doesnt mean you should just put away the drawing board.
614 21:51 <@wltjr> musikc: I have run out of suggestions
615 21:51 <@wltjr> I have come up with stuff on both sides, in the middle, etc no one is happy with anything
616 21:51 < musikc> wltjr, perhaps try NeddySeagoon's suggestion and take a break
617 21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, sponsors are going to be a really contraversial can of worms ... no major sponsors donate to the Foundation
618 21:52 <@wltjr> musikc: which includes you at one point, as well as others
619 21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> ... yest
620 21:52 <@NeddySeagoon> yet
621 21:52 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no they are easy, our new sponsor was great
622 21:52 < musikc> wltjr, oh you have made suggestions that i am completely opposed to. doesnt mean i think you should stop thinking or suggesting.
623 21:52 <@wltjr> the hard part is existing sponsors, and going through infra
624 21:52 <@wltjr> as it seems even updating the sponsors page is a infra matter, which is odd
625 21:52 <@wltjr> so infra deals with sponsors, another duty of the foudation, that no one wants to see the foundation handle
626 21:53 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, when they can see a tax advantage, it will get easier to move them
627 21:53 <@wltjr> musikc: well when ever idea one has get's shot down, it doesn't motivate one to keep on, instead just shut up and let others propose ideas
628 21:53 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Our sponsors do *not* (yet) donate to the Foundation
629 21:53 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: tax advantages heh, a 5yr process, I am not confident the house will stay in order for 1yr much less 5, tax incentives are a pipe dream IMHO
630 21:54 <@wltjr> like if we are serious about 501c3 and umbrella is the only for sure way IMHO
631 21:54 < musikc> wltjr, that's one way to look at it, giving up. or you could instead find another view point to work and give it another go.
632 21:54 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, dreams are how it all starts
633 21:55 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, an umbrella may be lowest risk ... that does not make it right
634 21:55 <@wltjr> musikc: another point of view is to let ideas play out before shooting them down on the drawing board
635 21:55 <@wltjr> which for example a while back stuff I believe astinus or antarus I always mix the two, was shooting down on -nfp, months later retracted it on irc, which is like wtf?
636 21:55 < musikc> wltjr, sorry i dont agree that ideas should be implemented before reviewed, discussed, and possibly re-written.
637 21:56 < musikc> wltjr, people change. perhaps someone gave it more thought and was swayed to your line of thought. doesnt seem like a bad thing imo. :)
638 21:56 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, thats the real world, people change their minds
639 21:56 <@wltjr> musikc: I can say wrt to you and Chris, you all don't know me at all, and some of my ideas you had other assumptions behind, so shot down things you didn't fully understand, because assuming one knows who they are coming from
640 21:56 <@wltjr> musikc: the more you rip ideas apart, the more time you spend spinning your wheels
641 21:56 < musikc> wltjr, i feel you are making this personal and hope that is not the case especially given you are talking to me about someone who is not even present.
642 21:57 <@wltjr> more time is lost to indecision than wrong decision
643 21:57 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, they key their is 'didn't fully understand' - thats not a reason for giving up
644 21:57 <@wltjr> everyone is so fearful of being wrong, nothing happens
645 21:57 <@wltjr> put another way, as I have said before
646 21:57 <@wltjr> a new dev comes on board, we give them full access/ability to destroy the tree
647 21:57 < musikc> wltjr, who is fearful of being wrong? it seems that you are expressing your own views as you are the one who is expressing apathy towards suggestions for fear of being shot down.
648 21:57 <@wltjr> new trustee comes on board, who has been around the community for some time, no trust or faith
649 21:58 <@fmccor> wltjr, A negative reaction or a disagreement is just that. It doesn't necessarily shoot something down (if it did, my life would be much simpler), it just forces dialog and perhaps compromise.
650 21:58 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, its not the same ... new job, new tree ...
651 21:58 <@wltjr> I am just beat up, and if others are more optomistic then more power to them
652 21:58 < musikc> wltjr, please ask fmccor. he can attest that we do not always agree yet through mutual respect we manage every day and every week to move forward. :)
653 21:58 <@wltjr> but I seem to always end up in the trenches shoveling the crap
654 21:59 <@fmccor> wltjr, musikc is right, you know.
655 21:59 <@wltjr> like I am no longer invovled with by laws process, which I never wanted to be part of, but felt it needed to be reviewed and discussed in depth
656 21:59 <@wltjr> next thing I am spear heading that, and ideas are all being attested to me personally
657 21:59 <@wltjr> just looking to help with bank account, and now I am doing that as well
658 21:59 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, The reaction I have seen to your proposals is one of 'shock horror' because they are out of he blue, not because of resoned well thought out objections
659 22:00 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: exactly, so they should shut up and object when there is reason to, not theory
660 22:00 <@fmccor> wltjr, Let's just say that devrel's private conversations would not earn a CoC seal of approval (unless you are thinking Call of Cthulhu :) )
661 22:00 <@wltjr> fmccor: I have no clue what your referencing or meaning there
662 22:00 * musikc giggles
663 22:00 < antarus> wltjr: you don't make a good sell ;)
664 22:00 <@tsunam> it sounds like the meeting has digressed...
665 22:00 <@wltjr> I am really sick of stuff being personally tied to me, I have my own business and my own clients who all are business owners, I have lots of other places for my personal ideas
666 22:01 < musikc> wltjr, means me and fmccor have knock out drag out fights regularly, but we lick our wounds and move on and find common ground again. :)
667 22:01 < antarus> also you seem to be in a hurry and then when things are not done at your own pace you take up more stuff
668 22:01 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the fault, if there is one, is on both sides. Change can come in any direction you like, but slowly ... you have to prepare the way
669 22:01 < antarus> no one is forcing you to tak eon more tasks ;)
670 22:01 < antarus> don't overload yourself
671 22:01 < musikc> hehe, NeddySeagoon, isnt it ghandi who said you must be the change you wish to see?
672 22:01 <@wltjr> musikc: this stuff has caused me to become ineffective as a trustee, hated as a person, hurt some relationships, kills any technical commit time to gentoo, robs time from my business, and is all making me pretty bitter
673 22:01 <@fmccor> wltjr, Call if Cthulhu is a pretty well known horror story by H.P. Lovecraft and a role playing game. :)
674 22:01 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, something like that
675 22:02 <@tsunam> fmccor: a very good short story
676 22:02 <@tsunam> fmccor: but I'd not call it horror
677 22:02 < musikc> wltjr, i can see the bitterness coming through. im sorry you are dealing with that. perhaps you should take the time as neddy suggests and step back, you can later review it after you are well rested.
678 22:02 <@wltjr> antarus: nope but stuff doesn't get done either way, I really didn't want to be a trustee, but there was void that needed to be filled, no one else stepped up so I did
679 22:02 <@fmccor> tsunam, Maybe not. It is a good story, though.
680 22:02 <@wltjr> musikc: were you there almost a year ago when I was discussiong foundation stuff?
681 22:03 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Stuff will still get done, just more slowly
682 22:03 <@wltjr> at LWE?
683 22:03 < musikc> wltjr, yes. i sat quietly and let you share your thoughts regardless of my opinions.
684 22:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: the longer it takes for things to happen, the less time we have to see the work through
685 22:03 < musikc> wltjr, it is good to air out your thoughts with peers. doesnt mean everyone will later accept them as first suggested though. lots of ideas require revisions.
686 22:03 <@wltjr> musikc: well all ideas were shot down, my point is almost 1yr solid now carrying about the foundation
687 22:04 <@wltjr> hasn't improved my life at all, in or outside of Gentoo, I am not to convinced the foundation is any better off
688 22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Nah, we just change our term of office. Thats only partly in jest
689 22:04 <@fmccor> wltjr, I work on the belief that if I run again, I'll be re-elect, and in any event I'm an officer of the Foundation until someone else is appointed. :)
690 22:04 <@wltjr> we aren't getting anywhere, and pretty sure meeting is long over, so I will just let others get on with it
691 22:04 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I'm sure the Foundation is better off for your contribution
692 22:05 <@fmccor> Oh, for sure it is.
693 22:05 < musikc> wltjr, you do seem very bitter and disenchanted with the entire Gentoo experience you currently have. take a break so you can view tihngs with fresh eyes.
694 22:05 * musikc nods
695 22:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not, and I am less happy wrt to Gentoo overall now
696 22:05 <@wltjr> musikc: no I love the technical experiences
697 22:05 <@wltjr> I love the java team, and people I work with there, whom I have not been workign with for most of the year
698 22:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Take a break from the Foundation stuff
699 22:05 < musikc> you've raised a cause that was dying, that alone was good. now you are actively trying to restore and make improvements. not sure how that's bad. just be patient with others when they dont instantly side with your suggestions.
700 22:06 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, can you pick up the banking stuff ?
701 22:06 <@fmccor> NeddySeagoon, No; I'm not qualified for that.
702 22:06 <@tsunam> hand it back to me
703 22:06 <@tsunam> I'll figure a way to make time
704 22:06 <@wltjr> tsunam: nothing stopping you from making the calls
705 22:06 <@wltjr> we all have the info
706 22:07 <@fmccor> I think tgall_foo was experienced, and at this point, if I read it right, it's mostly a matter of collecting paperwork at this point.
707 22:07 <@tsunam> other then I get to work at 7:30ish and go go go until end of the day :-P
708 22:07 <@wltjr> I literally put in my agenda I have little to no time
709 22:07 <@wltjr> that any time I spent I wanted to see results sooner than later
710 22:07 * musikc pokes tsunam
711 22:07 <@wltjr> that hasn't been the case, and it's resulting in more time from me, and no results
712 22:07 < musikc> :-P
713 22:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Please take a break
714 22:07 <@fmccor> I sent my forms to William; he can send them on.
715 22:07 < musikc> wltjr, it is unrealistic to say that everything must happen right away
716 22:07 <@wltjr> and while things like the by laws are almost complete, IMHO it's still pretty half ass
717 22:08 <@tsunam> so we take more time on them
718 22:08 <@wltjr> like wrt to Foundation members, wtf are they? what does being a member mean?
719 22:08 <@tsunam> rather have them right then half assed true?
720 22:08 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the bylaws will always be a moving target
721 22:08 <@fmccor> I think the bylaws are good enough. We can amend them as needed, and it's much more important to have them in place than to have them perfect.
722 22:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure for minor changes, but I don't see the members section being constantly re-written
723 22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr Members ... maybe nothing yet but we can change that
724 22:09 <@tsunam> <--is in need of food
725 22:09 < musikc> <---- is in need of a movie
726 22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more AoB ?
727 22:09 * fmccor is in need of food, too, but for a different meal, probably.
728 22:09 <@wltjr> no I am done, other things to do
729 22:09 <@tsunam> fmccor: yar
730 22:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Open floor ...
731 22:10 <@NeddySeagoon> Anybody anything else ?
732 22:10 * NeddySeagoon declares the meeting closed
733 22:10 < antarus> poll dancing
734 22:10 <@fmccor> wltjr, Can you send the forms I sent you to Joshua, or should I send him copies directly?
735 22:10 <@wltjr> fmccor: I can send, but you all are getting ahead of yourself
736 22:10 <@NeddySeagoon> antarus, its pole :)
737 22:10 <@wltjr> we need to answers to questions to find out if we can even proceed with Wells Fargo
738 22:11 < antarus> NeddySeagoon: election year and all that ;)
739 22:11 * musikc giggles at antarus for his poll dance
740 22:11 < antarus> (and I cannot spell)
741 22:11 <@wltjr> like if they require the president to be on file, but they have to be a US citizen we are screwed
742 22:11 <@tsunam> wltjr: just let me know where you got and I'll follow up
743 22:11 < musikc> wltjr, you are jumping the gun. tsunam has agreed to assist so you can take time off. :)
744 22:11 <@wltjr> tsunam: I can call them at least and get answers, which I assume will take ~30 minutes, since they will have to ask a supervisor and are not common/normal questions
745 22:11 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr Nope, we can switch offices
746 22:12 <@wltjr> tsunam: do you want to call them? do you know the questions I am talking about
747 22:12 <@wltjr> musikc: to a point I have to see some of it through since my name, phone # etc is tied to the account
748 22:12 <@tsunam> wltjr: I just need an email that gives the current situation and general what needs to be done
749 22:12 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'll follow from there
750 22:12 <@wltjr> info we need to have on file with them but haven't discussed
751 22:12 < musikc> wltjr, that would be a problem if only one person can even discuss the account
752 22:12 <@wltjr> not to mention I dislike the bank account address being Mr. Chews
753 22:12 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, there is no account yet ... yo are however, the contact
754 22:13 <@wltjr> musikc: yes, we have lots of problems wrt to bank account
755 22:13 <@tsunam> we'll work on it
756 22:13 < musikc> no account = anyone can call and ask questions
757 22:13 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: there is an account application underway
758 22:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: I'll look for the email from you and work on it as soon as I can
759 22:13 <@tsunam> for now I'm out
760 22:13 < musikc> so the trustees are opening an account in which wltjr is the only one who can ask questions or make changes? doesnt sound right, i must be misunderstanding something.
761 22:13 <@wltjr> till we provide paperwork they won't know who else can deal with the account, aside from me since I made the call and started the process
762 22:13 <@fmccor> Banks can't be surprised to learn that a corporation might have officers outside the US.
763 22:14 < musikc> good point fmccor
764 22:14 <@wltjr> musikc: because banks are not setup for a hybrid organization like ours
765 22:14 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, apparently not. From their website, that won't start until they check over the paperwork
766 22:14 <@wltjr> it's very difficult
767 22:14 <@wltjr> musikc: like when they were inquiring about owners, etc
768 22:14 <@wltjr> we have no share holders, no one owns gentoo, and that is not like most any other business
769 22:14 <@fmccor> wltjr, We're a not-for-profit corporation. What's unusual about that?
770 22:14 < musikc> wltjr, i think someone just needs to take some time. shouldnt be that difficult or unusual, as fmccor points out.
771 22:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: that no one lives in the state of the NPO, the NPO has no address of it's own
772 22:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: there are tons of problems
773 22:15 <@fmccor> We have members.
774 22:15 <@wltjr> the NPO doesn't have a phone #
775 22:15 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, The Foundation owns whatever there is to own
776 22:15 <@wltjr> fmccor: members don't mean squat wrt to a bank acount, that doesn't show ownership
777 22:15 <@wltjr> while the foundation is a legal entity, banks tie that to individuals as a entity can't managed a bank account
778 22:15 <@fmccor> We have a board and we have officers.
779 22:16 <@wltjr> individuals that work for or authorized by the entity due, thus the account get's tied to people as well as the entity
780 22:16 <@wltjr> fmccor: yes which must all be on file for the account
781 22:16 <@wltjr> fmccor: which also will all change at some point, and no clue how the bank will deal or react to taht
782 22:16 <@fmccor> At least for signature authority.
783 22:16 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, hand over to tsunam and take a month or so off from the Foundation please
784 22:16 <@fmccor> wltjr, Who cares? That shouldn't surprise them either.
785 22:17 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I can, but that's only going to set tsunam back in other efforts
786 22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr We all know that.
787 22:17 <@wltjr> plus till I do something with Wells Fargo, pretty sure I am the only one who can proceed, unless we start a new application or something
788 22:17 <@NeddySeagoon> Thisng will slow down but not stop
789 22:18 < musikc> wltjr, you said there is no account, only paperwork for an account that has yet to be processed. people back out before accounts are started every day. this isnt rocket science. take your break and trust in your fellow trustees. :)
790 22:18 <@wltjr> well how many months has it been since we were legal again, which was the road block to a bank account
791 22:18 <@wltjr> I understand tsunam is short on time, that's why I got involved, so stepping back just to see the matter put off for another month or two isn't encouragement
792 22:18 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Its a hobby, not life and death
793 22:18 <@wltjr> musikc: opening an account is a process, which is underway
794 22:18 <@wltjr> musikc: the process is not complete, but there is stuff on file, and I assume a bank account # tied to that info
795 22:19 <@wltjr> musikc: I provided them with a bunch of info to start the process, we just have to follow through with paperwork
796 22:19 < musikc> wltjr, what would happen if you quit tomorrow or heaven forbid you were injured or killed? your peers will be able to go on in your absence so enjoy some time off. :)
797 22:19 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, WF site said that after they had our stuff, someone would contact us about opening the account
798 22:19 <@NeddySeagoon> Its only first contact so far
799 22:19 <@wltjr> musikc: if that was the case, I wouldn't even be on the board :)
800 22:20 <@fmccor> Wells Fargo wants our business, we want them, so they're not looking for reasons to turn us down or throw up roadblocks.
801 22:20 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes to complete the process that is underway
802 22:20 <@wltjr> fmccor: no but they can't bend their rules either
803 22:20 <@fmccor> They already think they have the business --- why else would they ask us to pick out a check design?
804 22:20 < musikc> wltjr, you wouldnt be on the board if the trustees couldnt survive without you? trust me, life goes on and no one is tied by a life line to Gentoo.
805 22:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Take your break, we will cover for you ... or do you think we can't ?
806 22:20 <@wltjr> fmccor: so if their rules say all officers must be on file, and all have to be US citizens then?
807 22:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, then I resign as president - not as trustee
808 22:21 <@wltjr> musikc: if your saying the foundation would exist without me, possibly, but if it weren't for me making noise, there never would have been an election, much less reinstatement, etc
809 22:21 < musikc> wltjr, perhaps you would then consider another bank? i know when i traveled to Asia i was happy to see that Citibank had a presence
810 22:21 <@wltjr> musikc: been there, Wells Fargo is one of our last hopes
811 22:21 <@fmccor> I think they asked for two officers --- the secretary and one other. I provided my signature there if you need it, and Tom must provide his.
812 22:22 < musikc> wltjr, again i state, gentoo will move on without any one of us. do not fool yourself into thinking it would wither and die. that's ridiculous and a touch bit arrogant.
813 22:22 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, *without* travel to sign paperwork
814 22:22 <@wltjr> musikc: tried Citi and Chase already, we either have to physically go to NM to sign paperwork or look to establish official offices ina nother state
815 22:22 <@wltjr> musikc: the foundation did die, again if it wasn't for me making that known, nothing would have happen
816 22:22 <@wltjr> musikc: the last time the foundation operated as it should was 05, one of it's first years in existence
817 22:22 * antarus notes that you have no idea what would have happened had you said nothing
818 22:22 < musikc> wltjr, my reference with Citibank was to point out that there are banks that work in a variety of countries. ive no doubt that the trustees will find the right fit with the right bank.
819 22:23 <@fmccor> musikc, Tom tracked Wells Fargo down based on the fact that they could work without a trip to NM. And if something in person is needed, tsunam is within walking distance of a branch.
820 22:23 <@wltjr> antarus: I saw what happened from August 07 to January 08
821 22:24 < musikc> wltjr, your opinion of everyone elses failures is so noted but is a bit harsh to say no one did anything since 2005 as i simply know people who did work between that time.
822 22:24 <@fmccor> musikc, Problem with Citibank is they do not have offices in NM; Wells Fargo covers NM, and everyplace else west of the Missippi, and for some reason Indiana.
823 22:24 <@wltjr> antarus: given the lack of interest in the foundation even to this day, I am not convinced anyone else would have stepped up or said anything, no one cared
824 22:24 <@wltjr> musikc: stuff was done, but doing stuff and doing all that is required to run the foundation properly are not the same
825 22:24 < musikc> fmccor, tsunam is not within walking distance of NM. he works with me.
826 22:24 <@wltjr> musikc: we got the foundation with no bank account, a revoked charter, and last financial report was from 05
827 22:25 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Drop it and enjoy your break ... if you come back refreshed, fine, if you consider your position and resign as a trustee, thats fine too. but first, take a break
828 22:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I kinda have been, missed several meetings already
829 22:25 < musikc> wltjr, you are becoming argumentative and as such i no longer wish to participate in this downward spiral of a conversation. i hope you enjoy your time off, please do not forget to set your .devaway
830 22:25 <@fmccor> musikc, No, he is within walking distance of a Wells Fargo branch, though, and that's enough if they want to see you (at least, that's what tgall indicated)
831 22:26 <@wltjr> musikc: um, I have packages to bump, and things to commit, being away as a trustee has nothing to do with being away as a developer
832 22:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I don't think we are going anywhere with this just now ... chill out away from the Foundation for a month
833 22:26 <@wltjr> musikc: most are interaction hasn't been pleasant for a while, today was abnormal so far
834 22:26 < musikc> fmccor, ahhhhh... misunderstood. good that a simple office visit to any office is all that is required. :)
835 22:26 <@NeddySeagoon> musikc, but tsunam will need time off his work :)
836 22:26 <@wltjr> musikc: if we have to sign stuff in person, but that doesn't seem to be a requirement at this time
837 22:27 <@wltjr> so far with Wells Fargo we can do it all remotely, no one needs to enter a branch anywhere
838 22:27 <@fmccor> musikc, The problem we were running in to seems to have been that there are few if any banks doing business both on the east coast and New Mexico.
839 22:27 < musikc> <wltjr> musikc: this stuff has caused me to become ineffective as a trustee, hated as a person, hurt some relationships, kills any technical commit time to gentoo, robs time from my business, and is all making me pretty bitter
840 22:27 <@wltjr> plus few banks want ot open a remote account
841 22:27 < musikc> wltjr, i thought that message indicated you desired time off period.
842 22:28 <@wltjr> musikc: no, just stating how I feel in my present position
843 22:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, take time off and get to grips with your feelings
844 22:28 <@wltjr> musikc: I am a very straight forward person, if I didn't say it, don't assume it, never read anything more into what I am saying then the words themselves
845 22:28 < musikc> *sigh*
846 22:28 <@wltjr> what I desire is results, time off does not achive that
847 22:29 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, and words are such a poor form of communication
848 22:29 <@wltjr> in what a month we will be technically half way into our year, and what we have accomplished so far is pretty minor IMHO
849 22:29 < musikc> this is getting pointless. fmccor and NeddySeagoon thank you for the enlightening conversation. ill get back to you regarding the PR task. wltjr i really do hope you do something to relieve yourself of such misery and bitterness.
850 22:29 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you can run too fast and stumble ... if you are demotivated, take a break
851 22:29 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think we're done for today. As for the rest, do what seems best, I guess.
852 22:29 <@wltjr> I said I was done twice already
853 22:30 <@fmccor> wltjr, I'll always help any way I can.
854 22:31 <@fmccor> musikc, Thanks again.
855 22:31 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks musikc
856 22:31 <@wltjr> fmccor: thanks
857 22:31 <@fmccor> wltjr, You are welcome. Just ask.
858 22:32 <@wltjr> fmccor: it's not a help issue it's a time issue
859 22:32 <@wltjr> time to achieve results
860 22:33 <@fmccor> Understood.
861 22:33 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the two are interchangable while you can still divide the problem
862 22:33 <@wltjr> time is moot when results are achieved, more time spent, less results, less motivation and interest
863 22:38 <@fmccor> We'll get it done. Just perhaps not as quickly as we might like.
867 1.1 xml/htdocs/foundation/en/minutes/2008/june08.txt
869 file :
870 plain:
872 Index: june08.txt
873 ===================================================================
874 20:00 * NeddySeagoon calls the meeting to order
875 20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Roll call
876 20:00 <@fmccor> I wasn't saying to join. I was mentioning its charactistics.
877 20:00 <@fmccor> Here.
878 20:00 <@tsunam> here in spirit only :-P
879 20:00 <@fmccor> A ghost?
880 20:00 <@NeddySeagoon> tgall_foo, wltjr ?
881 20:00 <@tsunam> yep its a dead day for me :_P
882 20:01 <@fmccor> I think wltjr said he was time sharing with yard work.
883 20:01 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, yeah - we have a quorum, so we can start ... lets give tgall_foo a few minutes
884 20:03 * wltjr is here in a uncomfortable presence
885 20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> well, done ... ok, lets start
886 20:03 <@NeddySeagoon> 1. Introductions does anyone not know us by now ?
887 20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> moving swiftly on
888 20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> 2. Actions From the Last Meeting
889 20:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Foundation Bylaws Status - wltjr care to summarise please ?
890 20:05 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ?
891 20:05 <@wltjr> I have nothing to say really, I agree with everything that was done at last meeting on the bylaws, but I was not present, kinda taking a back seat atm, because I am totally confused over Foundation purpose, membership, etc, but rest of the common stuff can be moved on I guess, which I think is where the last meeting left off, so no change
892 20:06 -!- ahf [i=ahf@exherbo/developer/ahf] has joined #gentoo-trustees
893 20:06 <@NeddySeagoon> The present trustees have looked over all the sections except 4 and 5
894 20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> Next action * Gentoo Foundation Banking - tsunam
895 20:07 <@wltjr> then I guess that's where we are at, I will participate and comment, but not looking to lead the effort wrt to the bylaws, never did but sorta became that way I think
896 20:07 <@fmccor> I thought we said that for now we'd let Sec 4 reflect the status quo?
897 20:07 <@tsunam> short answer, no real progress has been made on a bank. I've been unable to get enough free time during banking hours to make the calls neccessary
898 20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, yeah I was of the opion you were leading
899 20:07 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, can anyone else help ?
900 20:08 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't mind per say, but didn't elect or ask for it, and I think many have opposition to me doing that, so would rather just be a part :)
901 20:08 <@wltjr> tsunam: I am happy to I was going to offer
902 20:08 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok, well sort the details under AOB later
903 20:08 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's worth considering
904 20:08 <@wltjr> that's partly why I took no role, officer wise, so I could help out or fill in where needed :)
905 20:08 <@tsunam> basically what they needed was the EIN and a bit of other information
906 20:09 <@tsunam> so really not much
907 20:09 <@wltjr> we have all that and more, just need funds and to decide which bank, but likely only a few like chase, citi, etc, big ones
908 20:09 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, can you brief wltjr ?
909 20:09 <@tsunam> wltjr: citi was the best one I saw overall
910 20:09 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: it would mostly be coordinating initial deposit
911 20:09 <@tsunam> wltjr: and most informative and helpful
912 20:09 <@wltjr> tsunam: ok I have no quams there, they have a HUGE presence here :)
913 20:09 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, It sounds like you are up to speed already
914 20:09 <@wltjr> tsunam: > 5k and growing
915 20:10 <@tsunam> wltjr: only catchpa we have is if the check from netbank is still good
916 20:10 <@tsunam> which I need to just call grant as he's not responded to emails about it
917 20:10 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure, or will need to somehow arrange an initial deposit/check something from PayPal just to prime the account
918 20:10 <@tsunam> wltjr: aye
919 20:10 <@tsunam> that's the other way
920 20:10 <@wltjr> tsunam: then worse case instead of a check, we can do a wire transfer, account to account
921 20:11 <@tsunam> wltjr: *nods*
922 20:11 <@wltjr> tsunam: and from there, PayPal can be tied into bank account, and so on, rest is you :)
923 20:11 <@NeddySeagoon> if the cheque is still good, grant an pay it in to his local branch
924 20:11 <@tsunam> wltjr: yeah
925 20:11 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: sure lots of options there
926 20:11 <@tsunam> it's been ~1year plus...
927 20:11 <@wltjr> only thing we have to do is prime the initial account to open it, and that would be like ~$100 or so
928 20:11 <@tsunam> not sure lifetime on checks
929 20:11 <@wltjr> depends if it's dated
930 20:11 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Its our end of FY on 30 June - will you have time for the book keeping for that ?
931 20:12 <@wltjr> if not dated, no expiration as long as funds are available
932 20:12 <@wltjr> so cash grandma's check today, not years from now, or you might mess the old gal up :)
933 20:12 <@NeddySeagoon> hehe
934 20:12 <@fmccor> :)
935 20:12 <@tsunam> wltjr: recall netbank is cloed
936 20:13 <@tsunam> closed
937 20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: the check should still be good with the new bank that took over the assets
938 20:13 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure but funds would likely be in some sort of trust or something, not sure there, but has to be some sort of rules, and availability
939 20:13 <@tsunam> but might need to get the check reissued
940 20:13 <@wltjr> if we lost the $ that would totally suck ass
941 20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: its not gone
942 20:13 <@wltjr> but we can fight that battle another day, once we have a bank account
943 20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: just in a different location
944 20:13 <@tsunam> *nods*
945 20:13 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it won't be gone
946 20:13 <@wltjr> tsunam: we can have our bank help us there
947 20:13 <@tsunam> wltjr: aye
948 20:14 <@tsunam> anyways that's the status of the bank
949 20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks tsunam
950 20:14 <@NeddySeagoon> 3. Open Bugs Assigned to Trustees ...
951 20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> 117837 Funding request: wildcard SSL cert ... robbat2 seems to be having fun with CACert ... we can close this action
952 20:15 <@tsunam> the CACert has been approved and is in place
953 20:15 <@NeddySeagoon> 177966 Clarify Foundation page on external entities ... what was this about ?
954 20:16 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: robbat2 is working that, I don't think we should close or mess with, but we are done there I believe
955 20:16 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks. We just need to keep an eye on it if we can't reassign it
956 20:17 <@fmccor> 117837 was closed a month ago.
957 20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> 217511 The Gentoo Store is Out of Date - this is a problem
958 20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, thanks
959 20:17 <@NeddySeagoon> A gentoo store in the USA is like an ash tray on a moderbike if you are in Europe
960 20:18 <@fmccor> Ha.
961 20:18 <@tsunam> simple solution would be to just remove all cd/dvd's from the store
962 20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Thats been done on the web page
963 20:19 * wltjr still likes the idea of having a third party agreement for sale and distribution of release media paying roylaties back to foundation
964 20:19 <@fmccor> I'm not sure we've ever sold any.
965 20:19 <@tsunam> cd's/dvds?
966 20:19 <@tsunam> yes we have
967 20:19 <@fmccor> wltjr, sounds good to me.
968 20:19 <@wltjr> could do that with T-Shirts and more, and it could be done regionally
969 20:19 <@tsunam> not many each release
970 20:19 <@NeddySeagoon> What about appointing a store management committee. ? Coveing the USA and a few other countries ?
971 20:19 <@wltjr> sure there is $ loss of dollar coversion, but that's moot
972 20:20 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: to difficult, we just have some legal types draft up a policy and rules with % payback to foundation
973 20:20 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's an option and a good possibility of the community being able to help
974 20:20 <@wltjr> then if we need to, we sick pro bono council after them to enforce it or etc, but that shouldn't be much of an issue I think most would be pretty honest, it's not like they will be moving tons of product :)
975 20:20 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, my point is that the trustees won't fix it unaided
976 20:20 <@wltjr> and it could apply to more than just media
977 20:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: do it hands off
978 20:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: have a policy anyone can follow without asking
979 20:21 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: just have to make sure anyone selling is sending checks to foundation, or sick attorneys on them
980 20:21 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, that sounds good - as long as they know the policy exists
981 20:22 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: publish it on g.o
982 20:22 <@fmccor> We've already given approval to some developer in Russia to sell T shirts, I think.
983 20:22 <@wltjr> link to it from home page or etc
984 20:22 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, the proceeds won't pay for international attorneys
985 20:22 <@wltjr> fmccor: exactly
986 20:22 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I really don't see it coming to that much
987 20:23 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you agree we need some help of some sort ?
988 20:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I don't see anyone selling Gentoo stuff to be making a ton of $ off it, and if they really want to be petty and not give back ~20% or some small amount to keep making what ever $ they are, then we can find other ways
989 20:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: not sure, I think the SFLC is international
990 20:23 <@fmccor> We're never going to get rich from the store(s); it's more a PR & good will thing, and you need the license to protect trademarks.
991 20:23 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we can use them at any time
992 20:24 <@wltjr> we just need to establish a relationship, heck the company in CA that did the trademark might do that stuff, they seem pretty damn big and all into software and the like
993 20:24 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, if we have a policy for 'anyone' to follow, nobody will - how will we make the store(s) happen ?
994 20:24 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we don't the community does :)
995 20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: put another way, some might elect to sell and distribute our stuff anyway, and we would have to hunt down, find them, and deal just the same
996 20:25 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, you mean - create demand and the store just happens ?
997 20:25 <@fmccor> People who want one will ask.
998 20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am just saying put out a policy and see what happens
999 20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: worse case in a year or so it totally fails we make a store or do something else
1000 20:25 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but we do have someone already doing that, and maybe others? not sure
1001 20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, ok, if it doesn't work, we can be a bit more proactive
1002 20:26 <@wltjr> I am not sure if anyone followed up with dude in Russia or if store happened
1003 20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, care to summarise please ?
1004 20:26 <@wltjr> I don't believe we have gotten any $ from it, bug again not sure he has either
1005 20:26 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, it was pva and he went away to do something
1006 20:27 <@fmccor> He's marked present here now --- could ask.
1007 20:27 < pva> Heh, and while I'm here I can give you some status update :)
1008 20:27 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we draft and have counsel review a general usage/sale policy for the G logo, t-shirts, mugs, etc, and release media, stipulating like 10-20% of net comes back to foundation based on $ amounts or something
1009 20:27 < pva> I'm working currently on setting up noncomercial organisation for our russian gentoo community
1010 20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> Thank you pva
1011 20:28 < pva> when I'll finish that (I still need to understand taxes) I'll be back to you )
1012 20:28 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, so who is going to do what, and by when ?
1013 20:28 <@fmccor> No one understands taxes, so that will be like never? :)
1014 20:29 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: well I can see about drafting some sort of policy up, but not sure if we should have someone who knows about that stuff do it, or just review it afterward
1015 20:29 <@wltjr> we need to establish a relationship with some pro bono attorneys/counsel IMHO
1016 20:29 <@wltjr> not sure if the SFLC does stuff like that, or some other firm
1017 20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, Don't we have some in CA ?
1018 20:30 <@wltjr> considering we might want the same one to help enforce said policy :)
1019 20:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, but I think they only dealt with past trustees, so we need to contact them
1020 20:30 < pva> BTW, I still have to read messages on nfp mailing list but I remember there was discussion about seal and I could be wrong but I've remembered that you were going to avoid it...
1021 20:30 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: likely best done initially by a paper official presence, like you or fmccor, pres or vp
1022 20:30 <@NeddySeagoon> we need an introduction from past trustees then
1023 20:31 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: yes, I think rl03 was going to intern there or something?
1024 20:31 < pva> I just wanted to say that if you are going to open subdivision in Russia you'll be required to have it :)
1025 20:31 <@fmccor> rl03 was the contact.
1026 20:31 <@wltjr> for sure he is the contact
1027 20:31 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, can you follow up on that ... we don't want to let the CA pro-bono thing we have lost interest
1028 20:32 <@NeddySeagoon> think*
1029 20:32 <@wltjr> surely not, given their work on the trademark
1030 20:32 <@fmccor> I'll chase Renat down.
1031 20:32 <@NeddySeagoon> ok - this will be your topic next meeting
1032 20:33 <@wltjr> fmccor: cool and once we are established with them, I can help out with discussions, draft etc on policy if need be, unless another wants to, or has time
1033 20:33 <@fmccor> Thanks, I guess.
1034 20:33 <@wltjr> er can make time, who has time :)
1035 20:33 <@wltjr> I want to meet him
1036 20:33 <@fmccor> Who?
1037 20:33 <@wltjr> fmccor: anyone who has time :)
1038 20:33 <@NeddySeagoon> 224689 Legal fees to for Reinstatement
1039 20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> I know its paid but why is the bug restricted ?
1040 20:34 <@tsunam> *shrugs*
1041 20:34 <@fmccor> No idea.
1042 20:34 <@NeddySeagoon> In the interests of openness, lets open it :)
1043 20:35 <@fmccor> Done.
1044 20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> thanks
1045 20:35 <@NeddySeagoon> Trustees and Foundation Article For the GMN
1046 20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> some time ago I asked what everyone thought of ^^^
1047 20:36 <@fmccor> I have not seen a bill for the reinstatement blunder, so perhaps he's not charging for that.
1048 20:36 <@wltjr> I can't do anything there, I have flaked to many times as is with helping out with GWN/GMN in any capacity, so will pass entirely
1049 20:36 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, lets not ask
1050 20:36 <@wltjr> fmccor: I thought it was all part of the one? that's why it was more than intially thought?
1051 20:36 <@fmccor> Ask? I wasn't going to call him and ask if he forgot to bill us.
1052 20:36 <@wltjr> :)
1053 20:37 <@fmccor> wltjr, The overrun was partly my fault --- telephone calls mostly.
1054 20:37 <@wltjr> if/when we leave him, I am sure he will let us know if we owe him anything, if we need anything from him in that process
1055 20:37 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, The idea is a mugshot a para of bio, a para each on our own aims, and para looking back to 1st March and a jpint para looking forard
1056 20:37 <@wltjr> fmccor: no worries, like I am short winded :)
1057 20:37 * fmccor is not
1058 20:38 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: oh that stuff, I try to be a background player, having effect, but not seen :)
1059 20:38 <@fmccor> (short winded)
1060 20:38 <@wltjr> my parents talk me to talk, but not stfu ;), gift of gab some would say :)
1061 20:38 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, we could use a photo of your shadow :)
1062 20:38 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ^^
1063 20:39 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: my middle finger is nice ;) but I can take a pic, need to take another, been a few years, I think one of the last ones was from LWE
1064 20:39 <@tsunam> hmm
1065 20:39 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: about which
1066 20:39 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: no one would want to read about me :-P
1067 20:39 <@NeddySeagoon> GMN Trustee Special
1068 20:39 <@tsunam> I'd do it but...
1069 20:39 <@wltjr> I am not much on disclosing details on myself, other than random commenting, which I do occasionally permanently in email or etc, unless irc is being logged :)
1070 20:40 <@tsunam> wltjr: many of us log irc =)
1071 20:40 * tsunam has 2+ years of logs
1072 20:40 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but I can come up with something :)
1073 20:40 <@wltjr> tsunam: well not publiclly
1074 20:40 <@NeddySeagoon> Its good PR ... the community already knows our differences they don't know what we want to achieve together (we don't know that either)
1075 20:40 <@wltjr> tsunam: I don't care about individuals, but put something in email, or like on a news letter ,it will prosper :)
1076 20:40 <@fmccor> It's a way to show the community the trustees are real and the Foundation is alive.
1077 20:41 <@wltjr> sure sure, I agree, and will cooperate/comply for sure in some capacity
1078 20:41 * wltjr is short, has brown hair and is into Linux :)
1079 20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, Oh they know that from reading wltjr :)
1080 20:41 <@fmccor> :)
1081 20:41 <@wltjr> quiet I am not, if I am in a room or etc it will be known, little dude, big presence :)
1082 20:41 <@fmccor> I think the most important part is the joint statement.
1083 20:41 <@NeddySeagoon> I'm offering to write my section up first if you want a template
1084 20:42 <@fmccor> Please.
1085 20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> ok
1086 20:42 <@NeddySeagoon> I agree about the joint statement - it will help us get our own thoughts together too
1087 20:42 <@fmccor> wltjr, Hm, so am I (all of those).
1088 20:43 <@wltjr> fmccor: maybe I am just an alias of you :)
1089 20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> 5. Should Trustees be Permitted to Serve on Council
1090 20:43 <@wltjr> I don't think so, but I believe a few of you all are running, and I respect that
1091 20:43 <@NeddySeagoon> Please discuss
1092 20:44 <@tsunam> I don't think one should neccessarily exclude the other
1093 20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, is running, tsunam and I declined
1094 20:44 <@wltjr> IMHO a officer, trustee, and council member should not be the same, and maybe not even rel's either, if that's controversial enough, I like separation and focus, with a variety of opinions
1095 20:44 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I've declined 3 times...that's not a surprise
1096 20:44 <@fmccor> It's already happened a couple times at least (wold31o2 & perhaps g2boojum).
1097 20:44 <@tsunam> cshields as well I believe
1098 20:44 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, my concern is that any conflicts of interests weaken both bodies
1099 20:45 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: that's why you can abstain
1100 20:45 <@tsunam> and still have a majority vote
1101 20:45 <@wltjr> I respect both g2boojum and wolf3102 and their contributions to Gentoo, but I feel people can spread themselves to thin, and might unwilling limit their influence or effect in any one area
1102 20:45 <@fmccor> I don't see where the conflict arises. I'm missing something.
1103 20:45 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, that weakens the decisions
1104 20:45 <@tsunam> I disagree but
1105 20:45 <@fmccor> For me, I think devrel is the bigger conflict.
1106 20:45 <@wltjr> fmccor: not so much conflict, but focus and variety of opinion
1107 20:45 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I don't have any examples right now
1108 20:46 <@wltjr> how many normal organizations does someone have like 10 titles :)
1109 20:46 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, bey they only have one job
1110 20:46 <@fmccor> So it's potential. I see it the other way, it helps open the door to cooperation.
1111 20:46 <@wltjr> right now I am not doing anything on amd64, and next to nothing on Java, not entirely because of trustees, but partly
1112 20:46 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, I see that too
1113 20:46 <@wltjr> yeah but for example if someone is rel, council, and foundation, that's one opinion
1114 20:47 <@wltjr> in 3 places :(
1115 20:47 <@wltjr> or 4
1116 20:47 <@wltjr> so it's not so much conflict, it's limited points of view
1117 20:47 <@tsunam> well another example. I'm Userrel, Devrel, and trustee
1118 20:47 <@tsunam> currently
1119 20:47 <@wltjr> and focus is not as narrow, so how well will any one be done
1120 20:47 * fmccor is too.
1121 20:47 <@wltjr> tsunam: sure, and for example don't have time for bank account stuff, which is totally fine, no worries there
1122 20:48 <@NeddySeagoon> To summarise then - its up to the individual, if they think they have the time, fine
1123 20:48 <@wltjr> but we all have real lives, jobs/businesses, etc, how much time can one give to Gentoo
1124 20:48 <@tsunam> wltjr: more so due to work commitments currently :(
1125 20:48 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not sure we should leave everything up to people
1126 20:48 <@wltjr> we need fail safes at high levels IMHO
1127 20:48 <@wltjr> put someone in rel, council, foundation, etc and they are MIA, that's a big impact
1128 20:48 -!- pva [n=pva@gentoo/developer/pva] has left #gentoo-trustees ["Lost Carrier... Don't worry, I'll find it later."]
1129 20:48 <@wltjr> look at the loss of things like Jakub, what if we lost vapier, or others
1130 20:48 <@wltjr> wolf3102, no releases, etc
1131 20:49 <@fmccor> I proposed a policy a while ago to the effect that devrel members should not be on council --- it died stillborn.
1132 20:49 <@wltjr> so no variety of opinions, no narrow focus, big liablility, I don't see the benefit
1133 20:50 <@wltjr> what's to stop someone from being council this year, trustee next, rel another
1134 20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> I don't think we can set a policy here - we need to discuss it with the new council, sinceit would work both ways
1135 20:50 <@wltjr> why all at once? is that fair to others?
1136 20:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I agree
1137 20:50 <@fmccor> I do too.
1138 20:50 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: IMHO I think we need to make an effort to get a voting project setup
1139 20:50 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, maybe thats your conflict of interest (if you are elected)
1140 20:50 <@wltjr> so we can not only discuss with the council, but put forth controversial votes on a more regular basis
1141 20:50 <@wltjr> other than just elections
1142 20:51 <@fmccor> Yes, I mentioned that I thought devrel was more likely to be a conflict.
1143 20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, hehe :)
1144 20:51 <@fmccor> wltjr, I think that's happening? jmbsvicetto or rane would know.
1145 20:51 <@wltjr> I do respect all of those who have and do hold multiple positions, and my comments are not a reflection on them or their efforts, some what an observance, but surely meant respectfully
1146 20:51 <@NeddySeagoon> Ok, lets park that one until we have a new council
1147 20:52 <@wltjr> fmccor: yeah but I hope willingly, I kinda talked them into foundation election, and I am happy to see they are doing it with council as well
1148 20:52 <@fmccor> They want to set up the project.
1149 20:52 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, I wanted to discuss it before it happened to me - but I declined my nomination
1150 20:53 <@NeddySeagoon> 6. Any other business
1151 20:53 <@fmccor> Well, the chances of my being elect are right around 0, so I don't see it as a problem. :)
1152 20:53 <@wltjr> fmccor: well given those that are running I might even vote for you :) even against my thoughts
1153 20:53 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, wait until the votes are counted :)
1154 20:53 <@NeddySeagoon> hehe
1155 20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> 6. Any other business
1156 20:54 <@fmccor> I'm not all that popular with current council. :)
1157 20:54 <@wltjr> but if foundation and council do controversial stuff and same people are on each, will look more like a coup d'etat
1158 20:54 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, Will you have time to do the end of FY stuff and present a treasuers report to the next meeting ?
1159 20:55 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: yep
1160 20:55 <@fmccor> wltjr, Hadn't thought of that. Yes, that could be a problem.
1161 20:55 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: I'll have caught up on the reports
1162 20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> I'll put that on Julys Agenda
1163 20:55 * fmccor wonders why we run July -- June.
1164 20:55 <@NeddySeagoon> thats all I had, tsunam anything ?
1165 20:56 <@wltjr> fmccor: summer time, no school/college :)
1166 20:56 * fmccor is well beyond that worry.
1167 20:56 <@tsunam> NeddySeagoon: did we approve the repayment for the reinstatement
1168 20:56 <@tsunam> I didn't see a yes no vote on it
1169 20:56 <@wltjr> fmccor: it was a joke, meaing young dev base :)
1170 20:56 <@tsunam> fmccor: I hear you on that one
1171 20:56 <@fmccor> I think we did.
1172 20:56 <@NeddySeagoon> You want a vote now ?
1173 20:57 <@NeddySeagoon> just for the recrod
1174 20:57 <@tsunam> well we've voted on others
1175 20:57 <@wltjr> do we really need to vote, who will oppose that?
1176 20:57 <@tsunam> lol
1177 20:57 <@fmccor> I think we voted on it once?
1178 20:57 <@tsunam> no one but
1179 20:57 <@tsunam> it is paying a trustee back so
1180 20:57 <@wltjr> it's a foundation necessity, and not an electable bill, we voted to retain Mr. Chew I believe, so any bills are implied to be paid
1181 20:57 <@wltjr> what's our policy there :) what do bylaws say?
1182 20:58 <@tsunam> I'd hope "get me my money" :-P
1183 20:58 <@wltjr> vote to approve reimbursement requests
1184 20:58 <@fmccor> Second.
1185 20:58 <@wltjr> I think that would depend on if the action was voted upon or not?
1186 20:58 <@wltjr> if action voted upon, no need to vote, if not voted on, then maybe vote depending on amount, but if small enough amount, IMHO treasurer should be able to decide
1187 20:59 <@fmccor> Things like reimbursement are legal obligations, no matter how we vote I think.
1188 20:59 * NeddySeagoon proposes a motion that tsunam be reimbursed in full for recent out of pocket expenses concerning the Gentoo Foundation reinstaement
1189 20:59 <@tsunam> would still like a vote in this case
1190 20:59 <@wltjr> fmccor: sorry, that was a statement :) more than something put forth to the floor
1191 20:59 <@tsunam> as it is to me
1192 20:59 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: second
1193 20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> Vote please
1194 20:59 <@wltjr> yeah
1195 20:59 <@fmccor> Yes.
1196 20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
1197 20:59 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, ? you want to vote no ?
1198 20:59 <@tsunam> majority yes, so it passes. I'll take care of sending myself money
1199 21:00 <@tsunam> I'll vote yes
1200 21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> Motion carried
1201 21:00 * wltjr should have said no :) just to be a prick :)
1202 21:00 <@tsunam> wltjr: wouldn't of put it past you :-P
1203 21:00 <@wltjr> tsunam: if you really want a vote, chance is one could say no ;)
1204 21:00 <@NeddySeagoon> tsunam, anything else for AOB ?
1205 21:00 <@fmccor> It's still a legal obligation. :)
1206 21:01 <@fmccor> Not from me on AOB.
1207 21:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: what voting? I think only for things we stipluate to ourselves, but who would legally enforce it ;)
1208 21:01 <@NeddySeagoon> wltjr, AOB from you ?
1209 21:01 <@wltjr> fmccor: or even call us out on it
1210 21:01 <@tsunam> not that I'm aware of
1211 21:01 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: no, other than private business, shower, etc :)
1212 21:01 <@fmccor> wltjr, No, paying our debts.
1213 21:02 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: did you want to set a time for another bylaws meeting, a final one for the last sections or what?
1214 21:02 <@wltjr> fmccor: well many people seem to find ways out of that these days, so I am sure the foundation could as well :)
1215 21:02 <@fmccor> Yeah, Let's close the books on that, so to speak.
1216 21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> Ah thabk you wltjr - What about 1900UTC on Sunday ?
1217 21:02 <@fmccor> Sunday next?
1218 21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> yes
1219 21:02 <@NeddySeagoon> 29 June
1220 21:03 <@fmccor> Fine with me.
1221 21:03 <@wltjr> yeah, might as well bite the bullet, weekend after is 4th
1222 21:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: our independence day :)
1223 21:03 <@fmccor> Just not 6 July, please (end of a holiday weekend).
1224 21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> whats special about 4th ?
1225 21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> :)
1226 21:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we became a country, we all party
1227 21:03 <@NeddySeagoon> you bit :)
1228 21:03 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: we split from UK :)
1229 21:04 <@fmccor> Worship the president, ...
1230 21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> 7. Open floor
1231 21:04 <@wltjr> practice pyroism
1232 21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> Any more from anyone ?
1233 21:04 <@NeddySeagoon> An Date of Next Meeting - 13 July on my calander ... is that right
1234 21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: I am not sure we will get large attendences on weekends
1235 21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: might be something to discuss next meeting, other possible times
1236 21:05 <@fmccor> No, this time is terrible. It was the only time we were all available.
1237 21:05 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: but once we are back to 1 meeting per month might be moot
1238 21:06 * wltjr hears the beach calling about this time on the weekends :) and weekdays as well, hookie time :)
1239 21:06 <@fmccor> Lucky wltjr.
1240 21:06 <@NeddySeagoon> So, 13 July 1900UTC for next monthly meeting (we delayed a week this month for Fathers daty)
1241 21:06 <@wltjr> fmccor: choice, I make a bit less than living else where, but wanted the life style, it's what I grew up with, $ will be there eventually
1242 21:07 -!- ahf [i=ahf@exherbo/developer/ahf] has left #gentoo-trustees ["boring"]
1243 21:07 <@wltjr> need to make some more before I can move to beach if I decide to, it's about ~20 minutes away atm, still not bad
1244 21:07 <@fmccor> There's a vote of confidence.
1245 21:07 <@NeddySeagoon> fmccor, in what ?
1246 21:08 <@fmccor> The "has left" message. :)
1247 21:08 * wltjr ignores those
1248 21:08 <@wltjr> one of the nice features of irssi, which I am still a total newb to
1249 21:08 <@fmccor> I was making a joke. Not a good one, I guess.
1250 21:09 <@wltjr> fmccor: that or combined IQ is to low :)
1251 21:09 <@NeddySeagoon> Are we done then ?
1252 21:09 <@fmccor> Seems so.
1253 21:09 <@tsunam> k
1254 21:09 <@tsunam> have a good afternoon
1255 21:09 <@wltjr> NeddySeagoon: seems so, no one else has anything to say really, and conv has turned to chatter
1256 21:10 <@wltjr> yep, same here, have a good one, I am off to smell better
1257 21:10 <@NeddySeagoon> Sun 29 June for bylaws 13 Jul next meeting both 1900
1258 21:10 <@fmccor> Will tgall_foo do the minutes? Should be able to from the log.
1259 21:10 <@wltjr> fmccor: can give him a bit, and if not, one of us can
1260 21:10 <@fmccor> Er, summary.
1261 21:10 <@fmccor> OK.