[gentoo-commits] gentoo commit in xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs: kde-project-meeting-log-20090820.txt kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto (jmbsvicetto)]

jmbsvicetto    09/08/22 22:37:03

  Added:                kde-project-meeting-log-20090820.txt
                        kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt
  Log:
  Added the log and summary for the 20090820 KDE meeting.

Revision  Changes    Path
1.1                  xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20090820.txt

file : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20090820.txt?rev=1.1&view=markup
plain: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20090820.txt?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain

Index: kde-project-meeting-log-20090820.txt
===================================================================
[20:55:28] <scarabeus> 57 secs
[20:55:40] <wired> =]
[20:56:45] <scarabeus> okey
[20:56:50] <scarabeus> i guess we will have to wait
[20:57:05] <scarabeus> since 3 devs; 2 hts and 2 exherbos are not exactly desired combo
[20:57:18] <reavertm> I'm here
[20:57:19] <wired> lol
[20:58:00] --> bonsaikitten (i=quassel@gentoo/developer/bonsaikitten) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[20:58:02] --> dagger (n=quassel@gentoo/developer/dagger) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[20:58:12] <wired> that helped... a bit :)
[20:58:23] --> yngwin (n=yngwin@gentoo/developer/yngwin) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[20:58:25] --> Ingmar (i=ingmar@exherbo/developer/ingmar) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[20:58:33] --> ayoy (n=ayoy@×××××××××××××××××.fi) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[20:58:43] <yngwin> here
[20:59:10] <scarabeus> ok
[20:59:14] <scarabeus> looks better :]
[20:59:19] <scarabeus> so  for the tampakrap
[20:59:21] <scarabeus> http://www.pastebin.cz/b594e8e991906a
[20:59:30] <scarabeus> i count him as excuses due to personal matters
[20:59:41] --> Gentoochild (n=bla@××××××××××××××××××.de) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[20:59:43] <scarabeus> please read the above paste
[20:59:50] <yngwin> pesa has no internet currently
[21:00:35] <yngwin> and ayoy is being grilled by his recruiter
[21:01:03] <scarabeus> ok
[21:01:16] <scarabeus> anyone said that he will be late?
[21:01:32] <scarabeus> otherwise i just wrote up our roll-call, i count everyone whom joined as here
[21:01:34] <yngwin> not that i know
[21:01:42] <yngwin> ok
[21:02:08] <scarabeus> ok so i would say lets start with topic 1
[21:02:12] <yngwin> i'm having a headache, so i'd like to keep this short on my end
[21:02:37] <scarabeus> for that i count as relevant tampakraps opinion, and reavertm's they are the last one working on it
[21:02:51] <scarabeus> so since tampakrap said it in mail i would ask reavertm if he has something to add
[21:02:52] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll talk to tampakrap, but 2 things about the KDE3 overlay
[21:03:07] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 1. Let's call it kde-junk, kde-sunset, or something like that.
[21:03:27] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: no problem i have all powers about gitosis
[21:03:36] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: 2. We can't drop any ebuilds from the tree before at least the end of the year
[21:03:37] <scarabeus> just sent me after decided name
[21:03:51] <scarabeus> with 2 i agree
[21:03:56] <jmbsvicetto> The reason is that we shouldn't tie an overlay to a specific kde version
[21:03:57] <scarabeus> i would start it after 4.4
[21:04:01] <scarabeus> if nothing evil happen
[21:04:17] <jmbsvicetto> At least not before we get 2 KDE4 minor versions marked stable
[21:04:22] <bonsaikitten> I is here, mostly :)
[21:04:38] <jmbsvicetto> So if we got 4.2 and 4.3 marked stable, then we could consider dropping 3.5 from the tree
[21:04:38] <wired> we'll probably need an announcement and a news item and any other possible means of communication to alert current kde3 users that they have to add the overlay if they want kde3
[21:04:59] <wired> a few months before we remove it
[21:05:04] <scarabeus> that is simple news item
[21:05:13] <scarabeus> ad it can go hand in hand with mask :]
[21:05:23] <scarabeus> i think 3 month mask for this is good idea :]
[21:05:26] <dagger> I think we should make such news after first kde4 goes stable
[21:05:32] <wired> its simple but it can also be devastating if we forget :p
[21:05:44] <scarabeus> and before i forget "DID ANYONE FIND SOME CONTRIBUTORS?"
[21:06:10] <reavertm> I suppose we'll find some gentoo devs still with 3.5
[21:06:13] <yngwin> iirc sping showed some interest before the summer
[21:06:37] <yngwin> he's resuming recruitment process now
[21:07:00] <scarabeus> will you talk to him and find out?
[21:07:07] <scarabeus> *mind
[21:07:08] <yngwin> i can yes
[21:07:28] <Ronis_BR> I don't know if my opinion counts, but I really agree to dagger, you should announce that even befor kde4 is marked as stable. It may be very painful for some users to make the change.
[21:07:49] <scarabeus> he has point ^
[21:08:16] <reavertm> scarabeus: kde3 packages moved to overlay won't be subject of package.mask, will they?
[21:08:17] <dagger> some people dont like kde4 and we wont change it. We just need to make sure they've got enough time to get use to overlay
[21:08:28] <reavertm> (they shouldn't imho)
[21:08:29] <wired> we just need to make sure that people will have the overlay added before we remove the ebuilds
[21:08:32] <scarabeus> reavertm: wont
[21:08:39] <wired> and i agree we reavertm we shouldnt mask it
[21:08:40] <ABCD> I would suggest announcing loudly and often, in many venues so that (hopefully) very few users are taken by suprise
[21:08:41] <reavertm> (just have keywords dropped probably)
[21:08:44] <yngwin> and it needs to be stable before it is marked stable
[21:08:46] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: news item, planet blog entries, forums thread, front page announcement, ... ;)
[21:09:04] <dagger> jmbsvicetto: sounds good
[21:09:40] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: can you do it, please please our PR farry
[21:10:22] <yngwin> i'd wait with too widespread announcements until there is a stable candidate
[21:10:45] <reavertm> indeed
[21:11:00] <scarabeus> well i was not saying NOW i mean when the time will come
[21:11:04] <reavertm> (which movesus towards second topic)
[21:11:04] <dagger> that moves us to point no 2
[21:11:25] <scarabeus> wait a bit, i have one problem with kde3
[21:11:44] <scarabeus> i have seen that debian ship more patches marked as security for kde3 than we even have as bugs
[21:11:55] --> ahf (i=ahf@irssi/staff/ahf) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[21:12:14] <yngwin> we need people now to start maintaining kde3
[21:12:49] <scarabeus> or mask it right after we stable first kde4, dont say remove just mask for sec-issues
[21:13:17] <dagger> kde3 is dead end. I think we need to decide how long are we going to maintain it
[21:13:26] <yngwin> users wont be happy, but i have to agree
[21:14:04] <reavertm> I'd suggest faster gentoo stable releases so that we can keep up with stable version being the one actually yet supported by upstream
[21:14:08] <scarabeus> i think we can write some news item onto the homepage/spread as news
[21:14:20] <scarabeus> and if noone will volunteer to work on it in 7 days...
[21:14:22] <reavertm> for example 4.2 branch is no longer mainataned...
[21:14:26] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
[21:14:30] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: About the news
[21:14:48] <yngwin> i agree, we need to recruit kde3 maintainers immediately
[21:14:49] --> tampakrap (n=tuxicity@gentoo/developer/tampakrap) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[21:15:04] <scarabeus> tampakrap: you, here, how, why
[21:15:11] <dagger> go home!
[21:15:14] <tampakrap> just for logs bye
[21:15:14] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: What do you mean about the package.mask? Do you mean masking KDE3 ebuilds now or after they're moved to the overlay?
[21:15:16] <dagger> ^^
[21:15:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: he was worried if we would keep the mask in tree after we move it to the overlay, which is NO
[21:16:13] <reavertm> what scarab said
[21:16:19] <yngwin> if we mask it, we might as well move it
[21:16:40] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / reavertm: I see and I agree with you - no
[21:16:55] <scarabeus> no, users sometimes hate overlays, unmasking is simple
[21:17:00] <scarabeus> or we actualy can let them decide
[21:17:10] <jmbsvicetto> But we shouldn't mask it until some time after we get KDE-4 marked stable
[21:17:14] <scarabeus> i would start with the anouncing call for maintainers on homepage and on all pcs
[21:17:27] <scarabeus> then we will know if someone cares
[21:17:32] <scarabeus> we can recruit the peeps
[21:17:35] <scarabeus> we have the powah
[21:17:37] <scarabeus> :]
[21:17:37] <jmbsvicetto> I'm sorry, but half my brain is being pulled to #gentoo-userrel
[21:17:55] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes that we mentioned too, after at least 1 kde4 stabled
[21:18:48] <yngwin> but if there are security issues that nobody is fixing, we may need to mask earlier
[21:19:04] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: anouncement on homepage and as newsitem if noone reply in timely manner (week) then after
[21:19:04] <scarabeus> kde4 is stabilised we will right away mask it as security threat. then it will live until
[21:19:04] <scarabeus> kde4.4 but masked/or in overlay (to be decided).
[21:19:16] <scarabeus> this is my braindead summary
[21:19:51] <reavertm> agreed
[21:19:55] <dagger> I would say make kde4.a stable, than make kde4.b stable and mask kde3
[21:20:23] <dagger> unless critical bugs will force us to make it earlier
[21:20:30] <scarabeus> dagger: there must be security ones
[21:20:32] <dagger> mask*
[21:20:49] <scarabeus> just browse debian patches
[21:20:51] <Gentoochild> another thing to consider when ditching KDE3 is whether all kde3 apps are available for kde4 (like k3b)
[21:21:06] <dagger> k3b for kde4 works perfectly
[21:21:10] <scarabeus> Gentoochild: security has privilege
[21:21:13] <Gentoochild> (was jsut an exampolke)
[21:21:14] <reavertm> dagger: not really
[21:21:14] <yngwin> mythtv seems to be a problem
[21:21:30] <reavertm> I wonder whether leaving kdelibs:3.5 + some apps would be a problem
[21:21:32] <dagger> reavertm: I'm using it 2-3 times a week for cd dvd5/9 - all fine
[21:21:43] <wired> reavertm thats what i was thinking as well
[21:22:00] <wired> maybe we can leave kdelibs3 and a few apps around for a little longer (like +6 months)
[21:22:10] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I wouldn't mask it, but after we get one KDE4 version marked stable, we should start warning users *publicly* to the status of KDE3 security
[21:22:13] <reavertm> dagger: try writing udf image wth verify - it will lock on 50% on disk eject, but that's off topic
[21:22:29] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: what are those security issue? khtml?
[21:22:37] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: If that upsets upstream, I don't care. Maybe it might lead someone to start fixing issues
[21:22:41] <scarabeus> reavertm: khtml as starters
[21:22:42] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: no it's very simple: if there are security issues they need to be fixed or the affected packages masked
[21:22:47] <scarabeus> there was some more in kdelibs and parts
[21:22:56] <scarabeus> simple tracking debian can work
[21:22:57] <reavertm> maybe it's easier just to dump kde desktop (along with affected apps) and leave kdelibs + some apps that are known to work
[21:22:59] <scarabeus> but we need that maintainer
[21:23:23] <Ronis_BR> I use Kile very often, and the kde4 version of if is far far away to be usable...
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[21:23:53] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: As a Gentoo policy, you're right. But in that case we should probably have masked KDE-3 a few months ago
[21:24:03] <yngwin> yes
[21:24:11] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yes but now we will have stable replacement
[21:24:14] <yngwin> so let's try to make things right asap
[21:24:29] <-- ABCD (n=ABCD@gentoo/contributor/abcd) has quit (Nick collision from services.)
[21:24:32] <scarabeus> i would say wait with this decision we can wait for the anouncement and proceed if noone appears
[21:24:33] <ABCD_> could someone PM me the logs from "<scarabeus> this is my braindead summary" through my re-joining?
[21:24:48] <-> ABCD_ is now known as ABCD
[21:24:50] <reavertm> I suppose masking the only stable kde release is not an option so please make sure we have one left :P
[21:25:08] <wired> sure hold on
[21:25:45] <yngwin> reavertm: if no maintainers step up, that is currently our only option
[21:26:38] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: ok
[21:26:48] <reavertm> then we should do as scarabeus said
[21:27:07] <dagger> can we make a poll on forums, to see how many users still use kde3 and how many moved to kde4?
[21:27:33] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: but we should all be aware that even when kde-4 gets marked stable, it's very unlikely that any arch besides x86, amd64, ppc and ppc64 will get it marked stable soon
[21:27:34] <yngwin> yes we can
[21:27:35] <scarabeus> dagger: well usage is not our issue, we need maintainers
[21:27:37] <dagger> of course it will represent only small percentage of users, but should give us some guidelines
[21:27:51] <ayoy> hey there
[21:27:54] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i bet on hppa
[21:28:01] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: sure, i dont think it will be marked stable soon on any arch
[21:28:09] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: so masking kde-3 will upset quite a few users from these arches, but it will also upset people in the other arches
[21:28:35] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Don't forget ia64 or sparc
[21:28:42] <yngwin> so the key is to get some ppl to step up and maintain&fix
[21:28:55] <scarabeus> yes
[21:29:01] <scarabeus> so exactly what i said
[21:29:05] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sparc is still tied to qt-webkit dying with alignment issues
[21:29:20] <scarabeus> so no cookies for sparc
[21:29:32] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i agree it is bad solution, but it is worse to leave it rot around
[21:29:40] <scarabeus> at least 1 maintainer
[21:29:48] <scarabeus> it is not so hard, the ebuilds are mostly cleaned and fixed
[21:29:56] <scarabeus> they just need the patches and testing
[21:29:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: And unfortunately, it seems each day KDE upstream is more concerned with Windows,OS/X than with Linux alternative arches
[21:30:15] <scarabeus> i expected that one
[21:30:34] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm not arguing against your proposal. I'm just making a few "warning" ;)
[21:30:46] <scarabeus> so you can show the logs when they blame you :P
[21:30:48] <scarabeus> :DDDDD
[21:30:58] <yngwin> they can still unmask or use overlay if they want kde3
[21:31:02] <scarabeus> i would say lets go for next subject
[21:31:22] <reavertm> agreed
[21:32:06] <scarabeus> i summarised it really nicely and jorge as boss can tweak it more to reflect us so we all write our proposals for it
[21:32:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: one Q, did you see carlo lately?
[21:32:31] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: he did kde3 commits when he was around, so that is why i ask :]
[21:33:18] <scarabeus> the awkard silence...
[21:33:36] <scarabeus> okey so for the 4.2 stabling i would say vote?
[21:34:04] <yngwin> i vote hell no
[21:34:05] <wired> i say we go for 4.3
[21:34:10] <dagger> hell no
[21:34:13] <wired> so no =]
[21:34:21] <dagger> 4.3 is the way to go
[21:34:25] <reavertm> I vote.. wait for 4.3.1
[21:34:34] -*- yngwin is with reavertm
[21:34:45] <reavertm> there's one 'problem'
[21:34:51] <dagger> yeah, 4.3.1 sounds like the best candidate
[21:34:53] <scarabeus> you know my opinion but for the record 4.3
[21:35:00] <reavertm> kde 4.3 will need phonon-4.4pre
[21:35:08] <scarabeus> the snapshot is stable
[21:35:11] <scarabeus> where is the issue
[21:35:20] <yngwin> what snapshot
[21:35:21] <reavertm> which is good as it works very well, just doen't look official (and it's not, it's our snapshot)
[21:35:26] <scarabeus> phonon
[21:35:39] <scarabeus> reavertm: i would say it is ook
[21:35:46] <scarabeus> it works peachy for everyone around here
[21:35:49] <reavertm> second thing - akonadi-server sqlite USE flag could be masked in profile
[21:35:59] <scarabeus> reavertm: why? it is so borked?
[21:36:04] <scarabeus> i didnt get time to test it yet
[21:36:13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
[21:36:13] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: carlo? no
[21:36:13] <yngwin> no prblems with phonon
[21:36:42] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll have to double check, but I think he's got under undertakers view
[21:36:42] <reavertm> no idea, works for me, but upstream says sqlite threads support is broken sometimes and may cause data loss when using sqlite backend
[21:36:47] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: meaning is subject to retirement for inactivity
[21:36:54] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: understood
[21:37:00] <reavertm> and I think would just need better testinb whether it's really the case
[21:37:04] <jmbsvicetto> About KDE4, 4.2.4
[21:37:08] <dagger> data loss = mask it
[21:37:15] <jmbsvicetto> If we wait for 4.3, time will fly by us
[21:37:35] <yngwin> 4.2.4 is not stable, boss
[21:37:35] <reavertm> (mysql is enabled by default for now and sqlite is marked as experimental in pkg_postinst anyway)
[21:37:40] <jmbsvicetto> 4.3.0 has some nasty bugs that upstream has admitted already and 4.3.1 shouldn't be out before 1st or 2nd week of September
[21:37:42] <yngwin> neither is 4.3.0
[21:37:48] <dagger> jmbsvicetto: yes and no. 4.2 is no longer maintained, and 4.3.1 will give us some time to fix some bugs in 4.3
[21:37:58] <jmbsvicetto> Add at least 1 month to that for asking for it to be marked stable and we'll be getting very close to the year's end
[21:38:38] <scarabeus> yep, but i think we need 1 month to fix all the issues we have in the tracker anyway
[21:38:39] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I think 4.2.4 is not a perfect release, but it's getting very close and will allow us to have a stable version almost 2 months before 4.3
[21:38:52] <dagger> I believe having 4.3.1 stable by the time 4.3.3 is released sounds good
[21:38:55] <reavertm> of course before anyone thinks of any kde4 stabilization, blocker bugs needs to be fixed first
[21:38:59] <yngwin> 4.2.4 is usable, but certainly not stable
[21:39:13] <jmbsvicetto> 4.2.4 is my vote - but majority rules ;)
[21:39:23] <scarabeus> yeah we rule and you rock :]
[21:39:28] <scarabeus> (you know the joke right?)
[21:39:35] -*- reavertm knows
[21:39:35] <dagger> 4.3.0 is more stable than 4.2.4 ;)
[21:39:45] -*- scarabeus confirm
[21:39:50] <Ronis_BR> If i can vote, I vote on 4.3.1, 4.3.0 crashes sometimes...
[21:40:03] <Ronis_BR> much more than 4.2.4 in fact
[21:40:09] <reavertm> actually stability wise i have never had plasma crash yet on 4.3.9999 (and there were some on 4.2 for me)
[21:40:16] <dagger> i never had a crash on 4.3.0, but saw some bugs about it
[21:40:36] <yngwin> i'm having plasma issues with both 4.2.4 and 4.3.0
[21:41:05] <reavertm> my vote is to go with 4.3.1 (or 4.3.0 with some patches added) and if so - remove 4.2.4 from tree
[21:41:18] <yngwin> well, not on 4.2 anymore as i upgraded both boxes now
[21:41:24] <dagger> the only plasmoid which crashes plasma for me is microblogging = 100% crash rate
[21:41:30] <Ronis_BR> reavertm: I don't mean a plasma crash, but dolphin crashes, konqueror crashes sometimes, and plasma crashes :D but it isn't often and it "recover" itself all the times here
[21:41:56] <reavertm> I doubt anyone still uses 4.2 - adding 4.3 umasked was epic kill for idea of stabilizing 4.2
[21:42:01] <yngwin> on 4.2.4 i had plasma crashes completely freeze up X
[21:42:23] <scarabeus> i am for that removal
[21:42:26] <scarabeus> 4.2
[21:42:27] <dagger> so, do we need to count the votes than?
[21:42:36] <scarabeus> dagger: no need, only boss was for 4.2
[21:42:36] <dagger> or is it decided
[21:42:40] <Ronis_BR> yngwin: i can be video drivers issue, I have never had a X freeze up with kde 4.2.*
[21:42:49] <yngwin> nvidia
[21:42:53] <Ronis_BR> yngwin: ati
[21:42:59] <reavertm> nvidia, worksformetm
[21:43:08] <wired> what reavertm said
[21:43:10] <scarabeus> btwwho is working on stable bugs?
[21:43:20] <scarabeus> i saw only reaver commenting on them and i closed few
[21:43:24] <scarabeus> but the list is still large
[21:43:29] <dagger> intel 4500hd and nvidia here. Nvidia doesn't like new kernel and heci (from staging) driver
[21:43:34] <scarabeus> i need to ask you to pick 1-2 from there and fix them
[21:43:39] <reavertm> some of them are gfx driver issues
[21:43:54] <reavertm> yeah, we need them fixed asap
[21:44:16] <yngwin> ok, can we move on?
[21:44:33] <scarabeus> i want to hear that they read what i wrote ^
[21:44:39] <scarabeus> :D
[21:44:57] <reavertm> summary of no. 2 please :)
[21:45:32] <scarabeus> http://www.pastebin.cz/22046
[21:45:34] <scarabeus> here you are
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[21:46:01] <dagger> looks good
[21:46:28] <scarabeus> yngwin: next topic is yours
[21:47:07] <yngwin> ok, we're ready to add qt4-tng.eclass to portage, no alternative names have been proposed
[21:47:39] <yngwin> i plan to do a review this weekend and send it to -dev ml for rfc
[21:48:06] <scarabeus> qt4-superstar could go?
[21:48:09] <scarabeus> qt4-meh
[21:48:11] <scarabeus> :]
[21:48:12] <wired> lol
[21:48:15] <dagger> qt4-blah ?
[21:48:17] <wired> qt4-v2 ?
[21:48:23] <ayoy> qt5
[21:48:25] <scarabeus> :D
[21:48:26] <yngwin> qt4-thisistheoneyouwant
[21:48:27] <wired> im a bit worried about tng, it sounds good and all
[21:48:31] <wired> ayoy: LOL
[21:48:39] <-- |Francis| (n=kvirc@××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××.fr) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:48:48] <wired> but what if we want to replace it again in the distant future
[21:48:59] <Ronis_BR> what is tng?
[21:49:01] <dagger> qt4-tng sounds a lil bit like star trek, but I think we can live with it ;p
[21:49:04] <yngwin> well, you can send bikeshedding proposals once the rfc is on ml
[21:49:04] <scarabeus> well you can live with one damn eclass like us
[21:49:08] <wired> it doesnt sound like it
[21:49:10] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: the next generation
[21:49:11] <wired> it is startrek
[21:49:12] <wired> :p
[21:49:16] <Ronis_BR> O_o
[21:49:30] <Ronis_BR> wierd :)
[21:49:39] <Gentoochild> to baldly go where no-one has gone before
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[21:49:48] -*- wired wonders if after tng we'll have the-empire-strikes-back or something
[21:49:51] <wired> :P
[21:49:55] <scarabeus> to baldly compile what noone else was able to do
[21:50:03] <dagger> wired: lol
[21:50:08] <yngwin> wired: good name for kde3 overlay maybe?
[21:50:13] <wired> :D
[21:50:16] <ayoy> lol
[21:50:21] <scarabeus> yngwin: i am open for proposals
[21:50:27] <scarabeus> and i have strong feelings for this one
[21:50:31] <scarabeus> :}
[21:50:32] <Ronis_BR> eheheh
[21:50:38] <ayoy> but isn't qt4-tng or whatever meant to replace the old qt4.eclass?
[21:50:47] <yngwin> eventually yes
[21:51:00] <wired> qties4.eclass
[21:51:01] <wired> :D
[21:51:07] <dagger> we can't just dump the old one and put the new one in place
[21:51:11] <yngwin> no
[21:51:12] <scarabeus> you cant
[21:51:13] <ayoy> dagger: sure
[21:51:17] <scarabeus> you would break the ebulds
[21:51:22] <scarabeus> *current
[21:51:22] <dagger> yep
[21:51:24] <wired> yes we need a migration
[21:51:30] <reavertm> you guys should really "learn" how to make drastic eclass changes in place like we do :D (with no new eclasses involved)
[21:51:33] <Ronis_BR> qt4-tng is a gentoo version with patches or not?
[21:51:36] <yngwin> unless you want to check all ebuilds that use qt4.eclass wrt new functionality
[21:51:39] <scarabeus> reavertm: see this is reason why i slapped you everytime for backcompat
[21:51:50] <reavertm> scarabeus: with kde-misc? :P
[21:51:58] <wired> its TNG folks
[21:52:05] <wired> does picard look like kirk to you?
[21:52:07] <wired> :D
[21:52:10] <scarabeus> reavertm: yep :]
[21:52:20] <scarabeus> kirk had better chicks
[21:52:22] <scarabeus> they had skirts
[21:52:23] <dagger> ok, back to the point please
[21:52:24] <-- Coopy (n=Coop@××××××××××××××××××××××.net) has quit ("Leaving")
[21:52:29] <scarabeus> ok ok
[21:52:33] <scarabeus> i think tng is done
[21:52:49] <yngwin> as far as i'm concerned yes
[21:53:02] <reavertm> or just qt4-0.1.eclass
[21:53:10] <reavertm> (then 0.2 for next revision :P)
[21:53:13] <Ronis_BR> "Backcompat is to still commit in the present the errors commited in the past"
[21:53:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: you should push your versioned eclasses idea
[21:53:28] <scarabeus> ok anyway
[21:53:36] <scarabeus> the last thing is bit brainstorming
[21:53:42] <scarabeus> what shoudl we focus on in future
[21:53:45] <reavertm> too bad you can't do it in place
[21:54:32] <ABCD> I remember seeing an agenda item in some email about the unversioned sets
[21:54:35] <jmbsvicetto> sorry guys - mind at userrel
[21:55:11] <scarabeus> ABCD: i was waiting on jorge to come back so i left it as totaly last
[21:55:19] <ABCD> scarabeus: ok
[21:55:21] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: That idea wasn't mine, I just pulled it out of the dust ark ;)
[21:55:38] <scarabeus> :]
[21:55:46] <scarabeus> ok any ideas/proposals what we should focus
[21:55:51] <scarabeus> we will have new recruits
[21:55:51] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The versioned eclasses
[21:55:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i understood
[21:56:07] <scarabeus> and for them we need something creative to do
[21:56:12] <scarabeus> we cant just leave them fix bugs
[21:56:14] <scarabeus> same for us
[21:56:22] <scarabeus> if i would only fix bugs i would went insane
[21:57:10] <yngwin> in qt team we are actively looking at adding new qt4-based packages all the time
[21:57:13] <scarabeus> i had idea about branding, but then i cant draw
[21:57:22] <ayoy> :)
[21:57:33] <scarabeus> so someone else would have to mentor the idea
[21:57:34] <yngwin> documentation could use more work too
[21:57:49] <ayoy> I had an idea of qt-based portage gui
[21:57:56] <ayoy> but then I wouldn't use it
[21:58:00] <scarabeus> :D
[21:58:06] <dagger> ayoy: noone would I think :p
[21:58:09] <ayoy> :)
[21:58:10] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's always the "fix upstream build system" idea ;)
[21:58:21] <yngwin> there was a kde(3?) one iirc
[21:58:21] <wired> scarabeus: branding is actually a lovely idea, remember that gentoo kstart icon quantumsummers had?
[21:58:24] <wired> we need artists
[21:58:25] <reavertm> I have some task, not sure whether suitable for newcomers
[21:58:40] <scarabeus> i have tasks not suitable for myself :D
[21:58:44] <scarabeus> so go on
[21:58:45] <scarabeus> :]
[21:58:47] <reavertm> I need eclass for odbc driver management
[21:59:01] <reavertm> supporting iODBC and unixODBC interfaces
[21:59:35] <scarabeus> well that is totaly not beginner work
[21:59:37] <ayoy> ok, next
[21:59:40] <dagger> I'm sorry guys, but I will have to leave you now. I need to pick up my wife.
[21:59:48] <reavertm> registering/unregistring drivers, in similar way like in debian, (but separately - one for iODBC and one for unixODBC)
[21:59:56] <wired> c ya dagger
[22:00:21] <reavertm> (it should be easy, mostrly it's just invocation of unixodbc tool with creating some files in /etc)
[22:00:33] <scarabeus> well if you find interested recruit go for it
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[22:00:50] <scarabeus> reavertm: question. how is your reviewing going by?
[22:01:08] <reavertm> I'm lazy to send fixed quizzes
[22:01:25] <scarabeus> gosh
[22:01:31] <scarabeus> please do so
[22:01:34] <scarabeus> sooon
[22:01:35] <scarabeus> :]
[22:01:35] <reavertm> nevermind
[22:01:47] <scarabeus> ok last topic is SETS
[22:01:53] <scarabeus> I hate the current state
[22:01:56] <scarabeus> i preffer metas more
[22:02:12] <scarabeus> so we need someone to write proper specs for what we need from sets
[22:02:12] <-- |Francis| (n=kvirc@××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××.fr) has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:02:21] <scarabeus> and talk about it with zac
[22:02:27] <scarabeus> and even better help him implementing
[22:02:34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^ ?
[22:02:38] <reavertm> oh yes, have anyone read bug 272488 ?
[22:02:40] <scarabeus> am i right?
[22:02:53] <reavertm> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=272488
[22:03:04] <scarabeus> i did i liked
[22:03:08] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: That sounds like an eselect and not eclass (odbc)
[22:03:09] <scarabeus> you volunteer?
[22:03:29] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll take this one
[22:03:47] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I've been meaning to write about it for a *long* time, but I keep postponning it
[22:03:48] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: use teh bug as base, i like the idea
[22:03:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Can I ask you to poke me about it until I do? ;)
[22:04:54] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: hmm, not really, it would be eclass for packages that provide odbc driver
[22:04:55] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I know the bug. My plan is to get back to the basics about sets
[22:05:07] <reavertm> it's not about switching between iodbc vs unixodbc
[22:05:07] <scarabeus> if you promise you wont mark me as your counter person for next lead vote ;]
[22:05:09] <scarabeus> :D
[22:05:11] <scarabeus> ok can do
[22:05:13] <reavertm> (it's determined at compilation time)
[22:05:18] <Ronis_BR> I wonder when gentoo guys will look at https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=268891
[22:05:18] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: ok, then I misunderstood. sorry
[22:05:46] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Are you affraid instead I'll point to you when it gets time for the next election? ;)
[22:06:04] <scarabeus> :D
[22:06:20] <scarabeus> okey
[22:06:28] <scarabeus> anything else for the sets, we will leave them to you
[22:06:32] <scarabeus> and poke you about it :]
[22:06:42] <reavertm> jmbsvicetto: I think 2.2 style sets are dead end
[22:07:02] <reavertm> confusing syntax
[22:07:39] <yngwin> what i want is kde-latest-release sets
[22:07:58] <scarabeus> that is quite hard to make but i see the point :]
[22:08:00] <yngwin> so that 4.2.4 would be automatically updated to 4.3.0
[22:08:19] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: that's basically unversioned sets ;)
[22:08:21] <scarabeus> also i think we should stop encouraging set usage in docs
[22:08:24] <yngwin> yes
[22:08:33] <wired> the unversioned sets work like that :)
[22:08:39] <scarabeus> they dont
[22:08:44] <scarabeus> too much package fuzz movement
[22:08:52] <scarabeus>  /
[22:09:07] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: they do - the problem is our "non-stopping" upstream ;)
[22:09:42] <yngwin> ok, anything else for the meeting?
[22:10:01] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: They have what we call here "bicho de carpinteiro". They can sit still for a minute and thus keep moving packages left and right, adding new ones, killing old ones and finding new and better ways to make distros life harder ;)
[22:10:11] <wired> do you guys think we should move the plasmoids from kde-testing to the tree?
[22:10:13] <jmbsvicetto> The can't sit still*
[22:10:24] <scarabeus> wired: we can
[22:10:30] <jmbsvicetto> wired: How good do you think they are?
[22:10:32] <scarabeus> just test them for leaks
[22:10:36] <scarabeus> and crashes
[22:10:38] <scarabeus> everytime
[22:10:40] <scarabeus> plasma is core
[22:10:44] <scarabeus> if it crashes it is PITA
[22:10:48] <wired> jmbsvicetto: some of them are pretty good, others i have no idea
[22:10:59] <scarabeus> wired: then add the one you like
[22:11:00] <wired> i mostly test that they build and occasionally that they load
[22:11:09] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I don't see a problem with adding good ones
[22:11:21] <scarabeus> but you really have to test them
[22:11:24] <jmbsvicetto> and what scarabeus said ;)
[22:11:31] <wired> ok so on a per-plasmoid basis
[22:11:36] <wired> kk
[22:11:55] <reavertm> well, kde developers doesn't test their code sometimes, so we should
[22:11:56] <Ronis_BR> you have already discussed about kdeprefix i think, haven't you?
[22:12:15] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: that was decided long ago, not matter of this meeting
[22:12:15] <reavertm> Ronis_BR: yes, it's dead (for now)
[22:12:24] <Ronis_BR> ok
[22:12:30] <Ronis_BR> too bad, but ok :)
[22:12:40] <wired> Ronis_BR: we accept patches
[22:12:40] <wired> :D
[22:12:54] <ABCD> Ronis_BR: that was decided at the June meeting :)
[22:13:12] <scarabeus> ok i would like to dismiss the meeting for this moth
[22:13:14] <scarabeus> any objections?
[22:13:25] <Ronis_BR> ABCD: sorry, it is the first time that I hear about gentoo meetings :)
[22:13:39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Before we go, when should we have the next meeting?
[22:13:41] <scarabeus> Ronis_BR: kde.gentoo.org its on the page, logs+summary
[22:13:53] <reavertm> I suppose we don't need more meeting recently - just people eager to work on issues :P
[22:13:54] <scarabeus> 17.9.
[22:13:57] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^
[22:14:02] <scarabeus> 3rd thursday in the month
[22:14:09] <scarabeus> 19:00 utc
[22:14:15] <scarabeus> if noone found it really evil or bad
[22:14:17] <jmbsvicetto> right
[22:14:33] <jmbsvicetto> Oh!!!
[22:14:38] <yngwin> scarabeus: i will be on holiday that week
[22:14:39] <reavertm> scarabeus: actually we could just meet in two weeks to evaluate work done
[22:14:40] <jmbsvicetto> One last item I forgot to add to the meeting
[22:14:50] <jmbsvicetto> Anyone willing to help solar about the 10.0 release?
[22:15:00] <ABCD> I'll have to check my class schedule for Fall semester again, but I think that will work (it does fall in the middle of the day here, though)
[22:15:10] <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: what kind of help
[22:15:15] <jmbsvicetto> I want to help with KDE (and if I can compiz), but it would be great if more people could help
[22:15:18] -*- scarabeus busy with x11stabling/overlays rework
[22:15:54] <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: solar and a few others are working on catalyst specs to build a live-dvd with x86/amd64 to celebrate Gentoo's 10th birthday
[22:16:08] <reavertm> catalyst....
[22:16:22] <yngwin> well thats release team work
[22:16:23] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: can they add ~ packages?
[22:16:35] <scarabeus> yngwin: there is no such team iirc
[22:16:36] <scarabeus> :D
[22:16:37] <reavertm> they could add kde 4.3 :)
[22:17:11] -*- yngwin sends thunderbolts scarabeus' way
[22:17:13] <scarabeus> because if kde3 will be there, we can simply grab sabayon, it will be more promotial
[22:17:23] <reavertm> and polished :P
[22:18:15] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's an release team
[22:18:26] <jmbsvicetto> But this is a "special edition"
[22:18:39] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: The point is to have KDE4, not 3.5.10
[22:18:40] <reavertm> solar or agaffney?
[22:19:33] <-- Francois (n=francois@193.253.141.72) has quit (Client Quit)
[22:20:27] <wired> ...?
[22:20:36] <reavertm> release tem
[22:21:30] <yngwin> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/
[22:22:24] <scarabeus> ok guys anyway i have to run
[22:22:31] <scarabeus> here is the summary: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/0908summary.txt
[22:22:33] <scarabeus> do logs yourself
[22:22:36] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ^^
[22:22:39] <scarabeus> download it NOW
[22:22:44] <scarabeus> :D
[22:23:08] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok
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[22:23:34] * scarabeus has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Rem tene, verba sequentur || Keep to the subject and the words will follow"
[22:23:50] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: can't find the file in packer
[22:23:54] <jmbsvicetto> pecker*
[22:24:29] <wired> jmbsvicetto: it downloads, its in public_html probably :D
[22:24:48] <wired> jmbsvicetto: i have logs, do you need them?
[22:24:51] -*- yngwin out
[22:25:14] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: please ignore me
[22:25:32] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I can't connect through http at the moment, but thanks
[22:25:55] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I got it from Tomas. I was just showing signs of my "split brains" :\
[22:26:03] <wired> heheheh
[22:26:09] <wired> no problem
[22:26:20] <wired> did you log the meeting or you want me to give you my log?
[22:26:57] <-- ABCD (n=ABCD@gentoo/contributor/abcd) has left #gentoo-meetings ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
[22:27:50] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ^^
[22:29:25] <jmbsvicetto> wired: I didn't log
[22:29:36] <jmbsvicetto> wired: Thanks for reminding me I forgot to add a rule to my irssi about this
[22:31:37] <-- ayoy (n=ayoy@×××××××××××××××××.fi) has left #gentoo-meetings ("kbai")
[22:32:27] <wired> jmbsvicetto: yw
[22:32:42] <wired> jmbsvicetto: so where do you want log? pecker?
[22:35:05] <wired> jmbsvicetto: ~wired/kde/200908_meeting.log
[22:36:24] <jmbsvicetto> wired: thanks
[22:40:10] <wired> :)
[22:41:49] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I have another request for you - starting Saturday, poke me for the logs/summary ;)
[23:10:08] <Gentoochild> \part
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[23:17:09] <scarabeus> btw you can leave now, next on the list is gnome meeting, and i dont think you want to slack around that ;D
[23:27:43] <reavertm> gnome meeting? nice



1.1                  xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt

file : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt?rev=1.1&view=markup
plain: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain

Index: kde-project-meeting-summary-20090820.txt
===================================================================
Roll-call:
pesa - excused (no net)
tampakrap - excused (family issues)
scarabeus, ABCD, ayoy, patrick, dagger, jmbsvicetto, revartm, wired, yngwin

KDE-3:
- As discussed before, the KDE team is going to move all KDE3 ebuilds to an overlay. The new
overlay hasn'te been named yet, but will probably be called kde-junk, kde-sunset or something
similar as we plan to use it for KDE stuff that is removed from the tree.
KDE3 is going to be moved to the overlay  either after KDE-4.4 is out if nothing evil happens,
or after we get 2 KDE4 minor versions marked stable - which likely means around the end of
the year.
- We are still looking for KDE maintainers. It seems sping might be interested - yngwin will
talk to him.
- Due to the current state of the KDE3 tree source, the lack of support by upstream and the
increasing security concerns, it's likely that we'll mask KDE3 soon. We're delaying the mask
until we get a version of KDE4 marked stable - unless more security issues crop up.
We plan to make an anouncement on Gentoo homepage and to write a news item about the status
of the KDE3 tree and the security implications.
We plan to keep KDE3 around in the tree until KDE-4.4 is released (but it will likely remain
masked) until it's moved to the new overlay.
- Before we remove KDE3 from the tree, we plan to have a news item, planet blog entries, forums
thread and front page announcement about it so the kde3ers won't scream for help all over the
place -  jmbsvicetto.

KDE-4:
- It was decided by a vote not to ask for 4.2.4 stabilization. It will be dropped from the tree.
- Instead, the current plan is to get 4.3.1 marked stable. For that, we need to focus on the
bugs in the tracker[1] and everyone needs to work on it.

QT4-TNG eclass:
Will be sent for review onto -dev in a week with the -tng name. No better name found out.

Future projects:
- Documentation polishing
- Branding the KDE
- Fix upstream buildsystem to allow install of different versions into a shared prefix

Sets:
. Adjust it as for bug #272488 or from the ground up for exact specs we need -
jmbsvicetto (we need to poke him about it often so he won't forget to do it)