[gentoo-commits] gentoo commit in xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs: kde-project-meeting-log-20100604.txt kde-project-meeting-summary-20100604.txt

[Tomas Chvatal (scarabeus)]

scarabeus    10/06/04 18:51:50

  Added:                kde-project-meeting-log-20100604.txt
                        kde-project-meeting-summary-20100604.txt
  Log:
  Add meeting log and summary.

Revision  Changes    Path
1.1                  xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20100604.txt

file : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20100604.txt?rev=1.1&view=markup
plain: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-log-20100604.txt?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain

Index: kde-project-meeting-log-20100604.txt
===================================================================
[21:59:58] * scarabeus has changed topic for #gentoo-meetings to: "Gentoo meetings | KDE Team meeting | topics: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/222007/"
[22:00:43] -*- ABCD is here
[22:00:45] <scarabeus> lets get slowly started
[22:00:51] <scarabeus> so step 0: roll call
[22:00:51] -*- dilfridge is here
[22:00:52] -*- wired suprizingly here
[22:00:52] <scarabeus> who is around
[22:01:02] --> krytzz (~quassel@quassel/user/krytzz) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[22:01:17] <scarabeus> thats all?
[22:01:22] <wired> lol
[22:01:34] --> deathwing00 (~deathwing@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[22:01:37] -*- ABCD is here (again, because I said it before roll call started)
[22:01:38] <deathwing00> w00t?
[22:01:50] <dilfridge> wot?
[22:01:52] <deathwing00> ok, before anyone brings up any topic
[22:01:56] <deathwing00> let me say just one thing
[22:02:39] <deathwing00> my commit access will be disabled starting this month June 2010 and will be re-enabled July 2011, as I will be doing an MBA that will take most of my time away, besides I was promoted to team leader in Flumotion and that adds me even more workload
[22:02:48] <deathwing00> said that, good luck guys :)
[22:02:58] <scarabeus> deathwing00: cheers, and happy birthday :]
[22:03:01] <wired> you really think you won't have time for 1 commit? hehe
[22:03:15] <dilfridge> good luck to you too :)
[22:03:35] --> mschiff (~mschiff@×××××××××××××××××××××.de) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[22:03:37] <deathwing00> :)
[22:03:38] <scarabeus> !herd kde
[22:03:38] <deathwing00> thanks
[22:03:38] <willikins> (kde) abcd, alexxy, carlo, cryos, dagger, deathwing00, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, lxnay, mrpouet, patrick, scarabeus, spatz, sping, tampakrap, tgurr, wired
[22:03:43] <scarabeus> wake up rest of you
[22:03:47] <scarabeus> there is more than 10 people
[22:04:16] <deathwing00> scarabeus: laters then :)
[22:04:24] <deathwing00> I'll still be around in jabber ;)
[22:04:25] <dilfridge> hmm... time for small talk...
[22:04:27] <-- deathwing00 (~deathwing@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[22:04:47] <scarabeus> ok, lets get started, and i will kick their asses later
[22:05:02] <scarabeus> so 4.4 and its stabilisation
[22:05:08] <bonsaikitten> rrrrrrringdingding!
[22:05:12] <scarabeus> the bug is not moving anyhow promisingly
[22:05:36] <dilfridge> many things are there since 4.3.x times
[22:06:10] <scarabeus> yes the main quesiton is
[22:06:16] <scarabeus> how about we put 4.4.4 to main tree
[22:06:21] <scarabeus> and ask for stabilisation in 1 week
[22:06:25] <scarabeus> no matter what is left
[22:06:43] <ABCD> sounds fine to me - 4.4.4 should just be bugfixes on 4.4.3, right? :D
[22:06:46] <scarabeus> but basic thing i would like to say is that i would like to see designated team that would handle the stables
[22:06:49] <dilfridge> probably not better nor worse than 4.4.3
[22:06:52] <scarabeus> they will run the stable
[22:07:05] <scarabeus> and will be responsible for proactively stabling and pestering us all for fixing stable bugs
[22:07:12] -*- dilfridge hears some coconuts in the background
[22:07:48] <dilfridge> well who else besides me runs 4.4.[34] here still?
[22:08:15] <scarabeus> i have 4.4.3
[22:08:16] <jmbsvicetto> sorry, got distracted
[22:08:16] <scarabeus> :]
[22:08:18] -*- ABCD doesn't because his hard drive broke
[22:08:28] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: by accident you dont run stable huh? ;}
[22:09:40] <jmbsvicetto> I runn 4.4.4
[22:09:46] <dilfridge> also good
[22:09:48] <scarabeus> So any other ideas how to handle this situation?
[22:09:51] <jmbsvicetto> run*
[22:10:09] <dilfridge> well the only other alternative would be to stable 4.4.3
[22:10:10] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: about the 1 week we must be ready for arch teams to tell us they'll wait the usual month
[22:10:31] <scarabeus> nah, they wont get to that bug before the month will come anyway
[22:10:37] <jmbsvicetto> in any case, I think the most important issue is the deps. Are we sure all 4.4.4 deps are marked stable?
[22:10:50] <scarabeus> expect amd64 and x86 which mostly will do what we ask them
[22:10:52] <ABCD> did the deps change from 4.4.3?
[22:11:17] <scarabeus> dependecies were not changed
[22:11:22] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: 4.4.3 isn't stable, right? iirc, the latest stable is 4.3.5
[22:11:29] <dilfridge> yes
[22:11:34] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: and no, I don't run stable
[22:11:55] <jmbsvicetto> also, what about kdepim? Will that only affect 4.5?
[22:11:58] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: i think our problem is that we all rock on ~ or even further
[22:12:01] -*- dilfridge has a fully stable x86 chroot rotting somewhere
[22:12:10] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: kdepim is affected only 4.5 and it is next topic :]
[22:12:20] <ABCD> jmbsvicetto: it isn't, but if its deps were stable, then there shouldn't be much of an issue
[22:12:21] <scarabeus> dilfridge: sadly you are not dev yet whom can fill those requests :]
[22:12:30] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: that's to be expected
[22:12:35] <jmbsvicetto> (us running ~)
[22:12:41] <scarabeus> yes
[22:12:49] <scarabeus> but then we would expect archies to fill stablerequests
[22:12:56] <scarabeus> we have tons of various packages just in ~
[22:13:00] <dilfridge> but anyway ~ is better than ~+pmasked
[22:13:03] <scarabeus> because nobody ever bothered to fill the bugs
[22:13:15] <jmbsvicetto> it's up to us to ask for packages to be marked stable, but it's up to arch teams to take care of it
[22:13:31] <dilfridge> (and to wait for 30days...)
[22:13:36] <scarabeus> yes, and who else would have better motivation to ask for stables than people running it
[22:13:40] <jmbsvicetto> I'm planning to add a request for amarok soon
[22:13:56] <jmbsvicetto> but I need to check the status of the deps
[22:14:16] <jmbsvicetto> I'll probably go for 2.3.0.90 or 2.3.1 directly and then drop all the older versions
[22:14:50] <scarabeus> sounds sane :]
[22:14:56] <jmbsvicetto> I'm also likely to merge amarok and amarok-utils as I don't see any interest on amarok-utils
[22:15:10] <scarabeus> so i guess my plan with arch team wont work since we dont have anyone interested in it :P
[22:15:21] <scarabeus> so only question left is which version 4.4.3 or 4.4.4
[22:15:31] <scarabeus> devs plz pick :]
[22:15:35] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: sounds also sane :]
[22:15:39] <jmbsvicetto> well, most of us already have the blessing to do the work for amd64
[22:16:05] <ABCD> I'd say 4.4.4 if we can convince the archies to do it in 7 days instead of 30
[22:16:06] <jmbsvicetto> at this point, we can probably target 4.4.4
[22:16:16] <scarabeus> ok
[22:16:28] <scarabeus> 3 out of 5 attending devs
[22:16:32] <scarabeus> added to summary
[22:16:37] <scarabeus> next topic then
[22:16:40] <scarabeus> kdepim 4.5
[22:16:45] <dilfridge> ugh
[22:16:49] <jmbsvicetto> ABCD: past history has showed that it takes a bit more than 1 or 2 weeks since we plan to ask for a package to get marked stable and to the request get to the arch teams ;)
[22:17:12] <wired> i also vote for 4.4.4
[22:17:19] <wired> btw we can stable amd64 ourselves
[22:17:26] --> raxas (~raxas@×××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××××.net) has joined #gentoo-meetings
[22:17:28] <jmbsvicetto> besides, has anyone hit any regression from 4.4.3 to 4.4.4?
[22:17:28] <scarabeus> yes yes
[22:17:33] <dilfridge> no
[22:17:47] <dilfridge> one last thing before we move on to kdepim
[22:17:48] <jmbsvicetto> I haven't, but I didn't check the kdm user thing yet
[22:17:56] <Wizzleby> No regressions from 4.4.3->4.4.4 here
[22:18:14] <dilfridge> we will probably be drowned in akonadi problems when 4.4.x gets stable
[22:18:25] <scarabeus> dilfridge: aware of that :/
[22:18:29] <jmbsvicetto> hmm, I did restart kdm on my desktop and it's working, so I don't think that's an issue afterall
[22:18:41] <dilfridge> (i was always too lazy to file a bug, but on my 3 machines it never started working properly)
[22:18:57] -*- scarabeus does not even have kdepim installed
[22:19:00] <scarabeus> too big pile of...
[22:19:06] <scarabeus> anyway
[22:19:10] <scarabeus> we have 3 options at our hands
[22:19:12] <dilfridge> I like(d) it...
[22:19:15] <jmbsvicetto> dilfridge: if you mean about kdepim, I don't have it installed locally :P
[22:19:22] <scarabeus> ship kdepim from trunk with 4.5 releases, our tarballs
[22:19:30] <scarabeus> make 4.5 work with 4.4 kdepim
[22:19:36] <scarabeus> or finaly package enterprise branch
[22:19:48] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Perhaps we should start by making 2 questions:
[22:19:59] <jmbsvicetto> 1. Which devs care or want to "mess" with kdepim
[22:20:06] <krytzz> second is probably the easiest, as all distros wil do that right?
[22:20:32] <scarabeus> krytzz: second is indeed easiest
[22:20:39] <jmbsvicetto> 2. and depending on that we can just start a vote on the forums/mls/* explaining the issue to the users and getting a "vote" on how to proceed
[22:20:42] <dilfridge> jmbsvicetto: alexxy was interested but sadly is not here
[22:20:55] <scarabeus> i am definitely not interested in kdepim
[22:20:59] <scarabeus> if that part of kde disappeared
[22:21:01] <scarabeus> i would be happy man
[22:21:10] <scarabeus> among with semantic-desktop team
[22:21:11] <scarabeus> :D
[22:21:21] <jmbsvicetto> I don't plan to touch kdepim too
[22:21:23] -*- dilfridge would probably skip that release then as he need kdepim
[22:21:42] <scarabeus> dilfridge: pst, we switched to claws and thunderbird, they works
[22:21:49] <dilfridge> hehe
[22:22:01] <jmbsvicetto> I've always used FF and TB, so no change for me ;)
[22:22:11] <scarabeus> ok so seems noone is interested in this topic
[22:22:18] <scarabeus> so lets postrpone it, i will sent mail to alias
[22:22:23] <scarabeus> and i will pray that someone reply
[22:22:24] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what about my proposal?
[22:22:27] <krytzz> what about reavertm, he did some work with pim :p
[22:22:37] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: the forums are good idea, but first we need to pass step 1
[22:22:43] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: we could set a plan like the following:
[22:23:09] <jmbsvicetto> 1. give developers one week to express what they feel about kdepim and to see if anyone volunteers to work on it
[22:23:43] <jmbsvicetto> 2. if that fails or we can't find anyone willing to do it, make a public announcement about the issue, explain it and give a few options to users:
[22:24:11] <jmbsvicetto> 2.1 have interested parties show up and work in the overlay to get it done - (what can be given as option to the community)
[22:24:18] <scarabeus> ok
[22:24:25] <jmbsvicetto> 2.2 have users vote for us to just ignore kdepim until it gets working
[22:24:26] <krytzz> will 4.5 be released one month afterwards? in that case you could postpone the whole 4.5 release for 1 month?
[22:24:26] <ABCD> from what I heard, kdepim may show back up in 4.5.1 or 4.5.2
[22:24:28] <scarabeus> that sounds like nice sumup
[22:24:37] <jmbsvicetto> 2.3 give the above 3 options for someone to work on
[22:25:23] <scarabeus> ABCD: with shitload of bugs
[22:25:40] <ABCD> that's beside the point :D
[22:25:41] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: added your approach to summary, since it sounds like only sane :]
[22:25:45] <dilfridge> that's what 4.5.3456 will be for
[22:26:02] <scarabeus> koffice-2.2
[22:26:09] <scarabeus> dilfridge: i saw you working on it :]
[22:26:18] <dilfridge> yes and it works afaik
[22:26:21] <jmbsvicetto> That's another thing I don't plan to work on
[22:26:24] <scarabeus> so wanna be designated maintainer?
[22:26:38] <dilfridge> puh... I'm not actively using it so bad choice...
[22:26:53] <dilfridge> (whenever I tried ooo did the job better)
[22:27:13] <dilfridge> but I can look after it a bit yes
[22:27:33] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: we could perhaps use this chance to ask for volunteers to work on koffice and kdepim
[22:27:50] <jmbsvicetto> (not that I expect a horde to show up)
[22:28:19] <scarabeus> well we need 2.2.0 in main tree stabilised asap
[22:28:26] <scarabeus> because 2.1 is seriously useless
[22:28:29] <dilfridge> I'd rather volunteer for some kdepim stuff than koffice...
[22:28:49] <scarabeus> :DDD
[22:28:55] <-- brk (~brk@××××××××××××××.cz) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[22:28:57] <jmbsvicetto> dilfridge: s/and/and or/
[22:29:00] <scarabeus> lets try same approach as for kdepim then
[22:29:27] <scarabeus> NEEEXT :D
[22:29:44] <scarabeus> so dagger sent me mail
[22:30:01] <scarabeus> if we would accept pulse patches
[22:30:01] <scarabeus> that makes it work in kmix
[22:30:02] <scarabeus> for now on we have policy that we dont backport patches
[22:30:41] <scarabeus> so lets vote about wheter to accept patches or be strictly what upstream sends
[22:30:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: since when? we always tried to follow upstream as closely as possible, but if someone is willing to apply a back-port and to keep it working, why not?
[22:31:03] -*- alexxy here =)
[22:31:07] <scarabeus> just write upstream/distro-patches based on what you want (only devs)
[22:31:15] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: acutaly we declined quite few backports
[22:31:39] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: for konsole in example
[22:31:42] <jmbsvicetto> as long as we don't want to do it and there's no one in the team willing to do it, it's ok by me
[22:31:57] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: iirc, ssuominem applied that patch again
[22:32:27] <jmbsvicetto> I don't follow commits closely, but by reading the bugzilla mail, I think a few have been applied
[22:33:12] <scarabeus> so lets keep status "if you keep it backported and polished you can have it..."?
[22:33:17] <wired> backports++ from me if they fix stuff ;)
[22:33:32] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: together with the old "you break it, you fix it" ;)
[22:33:43] <wired> jmbsvicetto thats a must :P
[22:34:05] <scarabeus> ok added to summary
[22:34:13] <scarabeus> now the topic that is quite important
[22:34:23] <jmbsvicetto> oh and about pulseaudio, I no longer care!! /me is using phonon-vlc :)
[22:34:37] <wired> lol
[22:34:42] <scarabeus> so inactive people in team
[22:34:45] <scarabeus> what the f**k is everyone doing
[22:34:51] <scarabeus> there is 17 people in the team
[22:34:54] -*- jmbsvicetto goes hidding in the back
[22:34:55] <scarabeus> ...
[22:34:56] <scarabeus> :D
[22:35:14] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I guess the other 16 guys are very active :P
[22:35:14] <scarabeus> on this meeting we have star attendance of 5 developers
[22:35:24] <scarabeus> very very active
[22:35:24] <wired> well
[22:35:40] <alexxy> he he =)
[22:35:50] <wired> scarabeus: you're to blame for this instance
[22:35:58] <wired> you chose FRIDAY EVENING
[22:36:05] <wired> failday for meeting :p
[22:36:09] <scarabeus> i dont mind attendance for meeting
[22:36:11] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: talking for myself, I took a lot of work when things were stalled, then you guys all started doing so much, I got used not needing to do too much ;)
[22:36:16] <alexxy> its beerday 
[22:36:16] <alexxy> =)
[22:36:24] <scarabeus> but there is almost no activity on tree or ovelray by team members in kde area
[22:36:29] <krytzz> right... only people without friends are online now
[22:36:38] <scarabeus> not counting few active ones
[22:36:45] <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: thanks :P
[22:36:48] <scarabeus> so since joining team is really simple
[22:36:50] <wired> \o/
[22:37:10] <scarabeus> i would like to ask all those who are not really into working at least bit on kde remove themselves from herd
[22:37:17] <scarabeus> they are mostly active in other areas of gentoo
[22:37:31] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Now you know how fun it is to have the pointy hat ;)
[22:37:36] <scarabeus> and it would at least show me list of people i can count in
[22:37:56] <wired> scarabeus: thats not going to work, most of them aren't even here :P
[22:38:11] <scarabeus> and i will forceremove everyone who dont have at least 1 commint in last 2 months
[22:38:17] <scarabeus> wired: it will be on summary
[22:38:36] <scarabeus> they can join in back and be active
[22:38:51] <scarabeus> or just commit here and there with our permission as other nonteam devs do now
[22:39:14] <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: that counts you too ;]
[22:39:35] <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: ok, let me be clear about my commitment: I plan to do amarok as long as no one takes it out of me, I'm interested in phonon-vlc for the moment, I also have an interest on kdenetwork. I try to look at bugs and I get interested on stuff sent to packagers. I do however have a few other areas where there aren't active people on, so they sometimes take priority
[22:39:40] <-- ABCD (~abcd@gentoo/developer/abcd) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
[22:40:03] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: you do commits in packages that have herd kde
[22:40:19] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: there are people that didnt do any commit in those 2 named months back any of that
[22:40:21] <bonsaikitten> scarabeus: yeah, that's fine with me
[22:40:23] <jmbsvicetto> yeah, but I know I don't do many commits
[22:40:26] <scarabeus> (i did some research)
[22:40:33] -*- alexxy plays with beta/rc/snaphsots stuff
[22:40:34] <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: but you do something :]
[22:40:34] <bonsaikitten> I'm mostly honorific member ;)
[22:40:51] <wired> the last thing i did was fix koffice 2.1.81
[22:40:51] <wired> ;p
[22:40:55] <scarabeus> there is thin line between something and nothing
[22:41:27] -*- jmbsvicetto gives a swift kick in bonsaikitten's honorific *slacker* member :P
[22:42:04] <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: you sound fat!
[22:42:08] <wired> you know I was looking at the slacker definition the other day and it said also known as bonsaikitten or patrick
[22:42:11] <wired> ;p
[22:42:12] <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: :P
[22:42:22] <jmbsvicetto> wired: hehe
[22:42:31] <alexxy> =)
[22:42:50] <scarabeus> ?D
[22:42:52] <scarabeus> ok
[22:42:58] <alexxy> =P
[22:42:59] <jmbsvicetto> wired: He has a bit to learn to catch some champs ;)
[22:43:00] <scarabeus> i guess that is all of mine topics
[22:43:03] <wired> omg
[22:43:04] <scarabeus> so
[22:43:08] <scarabeus> you have something to discuss
[22:43:19] <scarabeus> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/222014/
[22:43:19] <jmbsvicetto> a 40 minutes meeting? O_O
[22:43:23] <scarabeus> also here is current summary
[22:43:25] <alexxy> my 50 cents about kdepim
[22:43:29] <scarabeus> i planned 10 minutes for each
[22:43:34] <scarabeus> we were faster
[22:43:52] <alexxy> i plan to package tarballs for 4.5.0
[22:43:54] <alexxy> =)
[22:44:14] <dilfridge> nice
[22:44:18] <scarabeus> alexxy: that is mostly too late :P now you will have to work with others over mail :
[22:44:19] <scarabeus> ]
[22:44:29] <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: what are you planning to do with the cmake-utils eclass and was there any reason for the revert?
[22:45:52] <scarabeus> alexxy: also remember that people will want to kill you if you blow up their mail client :D
[22:46:03] <scarabeus> 1 thingie, anyone did log?
[22:46:06] <scarabeus> for the log...
[22:46:07] <scarabeus> :]
[22:46:12] <scarabeus> i have just summary
[22:46:14] <dilfridge> sure
[22:46:19] <alexxy> i have log
[22:46:21] <alexxy> =)
[22:46:45] <wired> so do i


1.1                  xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20100604.txt

file : http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20100604.txt?rev=1.1&view=markup
plain: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewvc.cgi/gentoo/xml/htdocs/proj/en/desktop/kde/meeting-logs/kde-project-meeting-summary-20100604.txt?rev=1.1&content-type=text/plain

Index: kde-project-meeting-summary-20100604.txt
===================================================================
Meeting topics:
0) roll-call
ABCD, alexxy, dilfridge, wired, scarabeus, deathwing00, patrick, jmbsvicetto
1) KDE 4.4 Stabilisation process. - creating stable team within kde team
We will add 4.4.4 to main tree, and start the required processes 7 days from that point.
No stable team since noone volunteer.
2) KDE 4.5 KDEPIM approach
  a. give developers one week to express what they feel about kdepim and to see if anyone volunteers to work on it
  b. if that fails or we can't find anyone willing to do it, make a public announcement about the issue, explain it and give a few options to users:
  b.1 have interested parties show up and work in the overlay to get it done - (what can be given as option to the community)
  b.2 have users vote for us to just ignore kdepim until it gets working
  b.3 give the above 3 options for someone to work on
3) Koffice 2.2 and designated maintainer choice
we shall try same approach as for kdepim to see if anyone is interested
4) Accepting major patches that alter stable branch (pulseaudio) [vote]
so lets keep status "if you keep it backported and polished you can have it..." together with the old "you break it, you fix it"
5) People in the team and their inactivity
Everyone in team is asked to reconsider their status. If they are not really active team members they should just remove themselves.
Everyone with no evident work on kde packages for last 2 months will be removed from the team.
Anyone who wants to join back or just join is welcome and just need to ask and be active.
6) open floor