Gentoo Archives: gentoo-council

From: Ferris McCormick <fmccor@g.o>
To: Ned Ludd <solar@g.o>
Cc: gentoo-dev@g.o, gentoo-council <gentoo-council@l.g.o>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-council] A Little Council Reform Anyone?
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:03:22
In Reply to: [gentoo-council] A Little Council Reform Anyone? by Ned Ludd
There's a lot of good stuff to think about here.  For what it's worth,
some initial comments.

On Wed, 2009-07-01 at 19:33 -0700, Ned Ludd wrote:
> The dev population is quite a strange beast. I never expected to win. > Why would you vote for somebody who did not even publish a manifesto? > I don't know but I love you for it. My only intention was to help offset > dev-zero being able force the will of outside forces upon us. > Well that has been accomplished for now (w00t). But I > never ever expected to be ranked so high. "/me blushes" So that means you > guys/gals expect stuff from me. Well as I never wrote a manifesto but > you still voted for me, I guess I should share some of my ideas on what > I'd like to see happen over the following year. > > The devs have a voice one time of the year: when it comes time to vote. > But what about the rest of the year? What happens when the person you > voted for sucks? You are mostly powerless to do anything other than be > really vocal in what seems like a never ending battle. That needs to > change. I'm not quite sure how. But I'd like to see the dev body have a > year-round voice in the council. Either via quick votes year-round > on topics or simply by having discussion in the channel. Devs should have > a right to voice their concerns to the council and engage in interactive > conversations without being labeled troll. >
We could provide for a recall vote, but I don't like that idea. Discussion in channel is ideal if there is some way/someone to help keep it civil enough to be useful.
> Another one of the things I'd like to see and help reform with the > council. First off it spends way too much time on EAPI/PMS. There is no > reason to make the council an extension of the portage team. Portage is > still the official package manager of Gentoo. Granted it's good to > accommodate others to an extent and I've always kept an open mind on other tools. > Alternatives are good as there is always the right tool for the task at hand. But > the council really should not be getting involved most of the time unless there > is a conflict which can't be worked out among the masses and those trying to get > portage to adopt new features. If the dev body wants it otherwise then > I'd like to turn my vote over to you the devs. Each and every time the > council wants/has to vote on an EAPI/PMS feature then I'll happily put my > vote in your hands. You fire up that old votify system and use my vote > as yours.
Not a bad idea if votify is agile enough.
> Note however that zmedico is not in favor of his time being > wasted on deciding what PMS/EAPI features are good. He simply likes bugs > and solving those. He likes giving us new features and tends to be more in > favor of the devs and community figuring out what is best for us. > An EAPI review committee could work well also. As long as we could get > non bias people in there. >
EAPI review committee --- please do. I agree that council meetings are not the place to do detail EAPI work.
> The council should be more about community vs technical issues only. > We have lots of top level projects within Gentoo which have simply given > up on the council as being an outlet to accomplish anything useful. > It should be our job to look at the projects in Gentoo. Look at the ones > that have a healthy community and encourage and promote them in ways. >
> For example prefix comes to mind. It was a project I did not like at > first. I'm not even a user. And there are things I surely don't like > about it as is. But there is community support and it's the icing on the > cake for some. So I'll back the fsck up and give credit where it's due. > This is a perfectly good example of a project/fork that needs to come > back home. Perhaps it's time to cherry pick some more stuff/people out > of Sunrise? > > desultory points out any two council members can decide to approve anything, > and that decision is considered to be equivalent to a full council vote > until the next meeting. I vaguely recall that rule. I'm not sure about you, > but I think that is a little to much power to put in the hands of a few. > Any dev mind if we dump that power? >
Dump it.
> Meetings will likely go back to one time per month and be +m with +v be > handed out per request with open chat pre/post meetings. The reason for > this is to keep the meetings on-track. I won't engage in endless > discussions. Facts can be presented. They will be reviewed on merit, > technical and social. >
Probably a good idea. I don't much care for biweekly free-for-alls either.
> The reason the meetings should go back to monthly is to allow those who > are council members in Gentoo to accomplish things other than the > council only. We all have personal lives and we all have our respective > roles we play outside of the council. Another note on meetings. The time > they are held currently don't fit well with my work schedule. > > I'm not subscribed directly to the gentoo-dev mailing list anymore > outside of post-only. And I don't plan to re-subscribe. I do browse > the archives regularly however. If there is some topic that should > be brought to my attention please point it out to me directly on irc > or CC: me. > > Thank you all and I will try not to let you down. Unless you were one of > the ones who wanted to me lose. Then sorry, but I'm going to have fun > disappointing you, by doing what is best for Gentoo. > > If you have any ideas on how you think the council should function or > reform itself. Please start a new thread or email those who think will > listen to those ideas. I'm open for some real change as long as it's > for the the positive. >
Thank you.
> So lets have some damn fun again !@#$ > Thanks. > >
Regards, Ferris -- Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@g.o> Developer, Gentoo Linux (Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)


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