Gentoo Archives: gentoo-council

From: Ferris McCormick <fmccor@g.o>
To: gentoo-council <gentoo-council@l.g.o>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-council] CoC enforcement proposal
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:46:49
Message-Id: 1194551197.2705.150.camel@liasis.inforead.com
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-council] CoC enforcement proposal by Donnie Berkholz
On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 10:53 -0800, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 13:12 Thu 08 Nov , Ferris McCormick wrote: > > This is a big step forward, and if we had a binary situation: either > > accept it as written or go back to the drawing board, I'd prefer to > > accept. Thus my comments which follow are best viewed as requests for > > clarification or of personal inclination. > > Thanks for your comments, and I want to reiterate that we certainly do > not have a binary situation in that respect. What we do have is > preliminary text that could use suggestions like yours. =) > > > 1. Are 3 (or 5) people sufficient to ensure quick reactions to mailing > > list questions or IRC? This is minor, and starting with 3 to put the > > process in place and tune it as needed probably works. My concern is > > longer term. Speaking for myself, for instance, I almost never see > > problems on IRC until they are long over, and I suspect this is the case > > for most people. Similarly (usually) with mail. And I don't think we > > want a corps of full-time monitors. > > I understand your point, which amne also brought up. My main concerns > with a larger group are that it will be unable to maintain a cohesive > view of the CoC and that anyone who feels like it can join up. >
I think I agree that fewer is better in this case. Starting with 3 growing to 5 probably works about right. At least until we have some experience.
> > 2. As to forums, I've never seen that the forum moderators need any > > help with what they are doing. Actually, in a sense I think the forums > > are kind of a model for what you are proposing. > > I agree. Should we add a note that already-moderated places (#gentoo, > forums) should not need additional moderation? >
Sure. --- Snip for economy ---
> > 5. Do you perceive the enforcement group as an arm of the Council > > rather than as a group of its own? Previously, the Council did not seem > > to know what to do when the Proctors' views of Code of Conduct and > > Councils' *individual* views of Code of Conduct seemed to diverge. This > > led to the unusual step of simply eliminating the Proctors. I rather > > doubt that you would find much enthusiasm for working in such an > > environment again. So, what you are proposing probably works for any > > given Council (assuming continuing commitment from council to council). > > I think my concern is addressed to (a) continuing commitment; (b) > > consistency and continuity. The Gentoo community need to understand the > > rules so that they become a part of our culture, so that even with > > annual assessment, we should expect evolution rather than catastrophe. > > > > (This was all a bit muddled. That's sure indication that so are my > > thoughts, so take it for what it's worth.) > > > > 6. "Developers can be members of both [Council and Code of Conduct > > team]." This is the one sentence I take exception to. It's better to > > work for more community involvement rather than allow concentration > > resulting in personnel wearing multiple hats. > > The above two points tie together, in my mind. It would be preferable to > have at least one of the team members be on council to ensure that their > CoC interpretations are consistent. >
Nice point. You sold me, assuming agreement among the Council members (or at least agreement to give great weight to the reading from whoever is a member of both.)
> That gave me a new idea. What if the first 2-4 weeks, the team did not > actually take any action but just documented what its actions would have > been? This would give people a feeling for what level of enforcement > we'd see for the CoC. >
I like this.
> > 7. Off the top of my head, why not allow (or require) that one member > > of the team be a user but not a developer? Userrel, all, comments? > > If we could find a user with a strong enough grasp of Gentoo culture, > I'm open to the idea, and I'd like to make any users adjunct staff > members during their term to avoid that annoying "Users don't have power > over me" syndrome. >
I have one or two ideas, and I would guess so does Christel.
> Thanks, > Donnie
Very positive, Regards, Ferris -- Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@g.o> Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc)

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