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Alex Alexander posted on Fri, 05 Jul 2013 01:02:24 +0300 as excerpted: |
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> Being part of the team that decided to remove KDE3 from the tree, I |
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> assure you that it wasn't an easy decision. Unfortunately, KDE3 was in |
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> really bad shape. Upstream had abandoned it, build tools slowly became |
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> incompatible with it and maintaining it became a big PITA for the KDE |
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> team. |
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> |
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> A lot of work had been put into making KDE3 and KDE4 co-exist already, |
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> since we too felt that KDE4 was not ready and I'm pretty sure we kept it |
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> around longer than most distros out there. |
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> |
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> But at some point KDE4 became usable and we had to move on, for our own |
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> sanity. |
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|
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Thanks. |
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FWIW, I agree. It was really upstream that dropped the ball on that one, |
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especially after ASeigo's (in)famous promise. Both distros and users |
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were left to pick up the pieces on their own. |
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As for the timing, by the time kde3 actually headed to sunset, I had been |
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switched over for a couple months (maybe a bit more?) already, as I had |
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seen the gentoo/kde discussion and knew they were dropping it... with |
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little real choice given upstream kde had already dropped it, and by 4.2, |
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was claiming kde4 was ready for ordinary users despite it being horribly |
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broken alpha quality at best. |
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And it's a good thing I /did/ get a relatively early start, since even |
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tho I had been trying kde4 on and off since before its initial release, |
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it was simply still to broken to switch to directly, without a *LOT* of |
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tweaking and substitution of alternative options where there simply |
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wasn't a kde4 option yet (and in some cases still isn't, proper khotkeys |
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multi-key support being a case in point, but I ended up hacking together |
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a solution that worked for me). I actually switched with 4.2.5, but it |
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took me well over a hundred hours (that's when I stopped counting, and I |
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was being conservative) of stress and sweat to complete the transition. |
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Obviously, few would tolerate that, so it was still broken (alpha) by |
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definition. |
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Late in 4.5, say 4.5.4 or so, was the first version I considered truly |
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first-release quality, and that would have been a *LONG* time for a distro |
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to try to support kde3 without upstream itself helping. I guess Debian |
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stable effectively did that, but Debian stable isn't a rolling distro and |
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wasn't constantly upgrading the rest of the distribution out from |
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underneath the stale kde3, breaking it in the process, either. (Of |
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course, just when everything else was settling down, the kdepim devs had |
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to repeat pretty much the same story with akonadified kmail, in kdepim-4.6 |
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+... the MIDDLE of what SHOULD have been a a stable-api series! Anyone |
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sane would have reserved that for the 4.x -> 5.x transition, but that's a |
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whole different story. OTOH, it was that which finally triggered my |
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switch off kmail/akonadi/kdepim entirely, and with that gone I no longer |
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had a reason to keep semantic-desktop on, so that's when I killed it here |
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too, thus setting the stage for this entire thread...) |
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|
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On the bright side, tho, at least here all that work you put into making |
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kde3 and kde4 coexist reasonably peacefully was definitely NOT a waste. |
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It was that work, after all, that finally allowed me a successful |
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transition to kde4, a single app at a time, by running the kde4 version |
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on what began as a kde3 desktop, configuring it to usability, then |
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unmerging the kde3 version so the kde4 version ran by default. (Long |
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hairy app-by-app-transition account that was in my first post revision |
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elided as unnecessary...) |
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By switching to and configuring a kde4 app at a time, I was able to work |
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around two separate triggers of what turned out later to be a single root |
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blocker bug (the qt4-related painter bug fixed around 4.3.2 or 4.3.4), |
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the worst in plasma, the bad enough one in kwin, that were previously |
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making kde4 performance so horribly glacial that I simply couldn't work |
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in it long enough to configure it to my satisfaction and make the |
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transition. Plus some other less major problems that helped me work thru, |
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of course... |
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And if kde3 and kde4 hadn't been usable at the same time, app-at-a-time |
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kde4 configuration while still working in a kde3 base desktop wouldn't |
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have been possible. So I'm glad gentoo/kde /had/ put all the work they |
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did into letting them run side-by-side. =:^) |
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> That said, I do agree that semantic-desktop should stay optional in |
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> KDE4. Back in my KDE days I hated it and always ensured it - and its |
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> ugly dependencies - stayed off my system. Unfortunately I am not part of |
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> the KDE team anymore, so I don't know what their reasoning is behind |
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> this decision. Hopefully they will reconsider :) |
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Thanks. |
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With some luck... but I'm not counting on it. And thankfully, I'm an |
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experienced and well versed enough gentooer now that I /can/ handle the |
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patching, at least relatively short term. It's longer term that I'm |
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worried about. |
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But again with some luck, frameworks will get to be usable quickly enough |
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that I shouldn't have to deal with the patches for |
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/too/ long. All upstream indications so far is that they don't want a |
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repeat of the early kde4 fiasco either, and the transition should be much |
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smoother. That's in addition to the modularity, with the stated goal of |
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people being able to mix and match kde4 and kde5/frameworks apps as |
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desired, and only upgrade to the kde5/frameworks versions when the |
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individual apps are ready for it. |
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And there's already a very rough early alpha frameworks preview out |
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(AFAIK with 4.11-beta1), and a kde/kwin/wayland preview (which altho it's |
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a WIP, gentoo/kde /is/ apparently supporting, I see the wayland USE flags |
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already but haven't been brave enough to try wayland at all, yet) as well. |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |