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Lindsay Haisley posted on Sat, 11 Sep 2010 19:17:36 -0500 as excerpted: |
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> On Sat, 2010-09-11 at 23:13 +0000, Duncan wrote: |
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>> I wish there were some way to really drum this into every Gentoo user's |
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>> head when they started, so they never ended up having to learn it the |
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>> hard way, as you did. But as they say, if wishes were fishes... |
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> |
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> You know, I set up my Gentoo boxes - 2 commercial servers and a desktop |
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> box - over 5 years ago. |
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|
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I started in 2004. What was ironic was that for some reason I never did |
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actually figure out, 2004.0 didn't work for me, and by the time I got |
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around to working on it again, 2004.1 was out (in those days Gentoo did |
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four releases a year, one a quarter). But in the mean time I was |
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following the user list, the dev list, the desktop list, and the amd64 |
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list. I had also read the handbook over, including the working with |
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portage and working with Gentoo sections (there wasn't yet a network |
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section). Plus, I read into the list archives a bit. So I had a decent |
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feel for all the common places folks had problems, and was actually |
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answering questions about Gentoo and helping people with the common |
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problems anyway, from my still-Mandrake box, before I even had Gentoo up |
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and running! |
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|
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I always thought it was a shame how many folks read only the install |
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section of the handbook, and that only once, when they were actually |
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installing. Those folks may get a Gentoo system up and running, but miss |
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all the good hints that make it easier to administer! =:^( I wish there |
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were some way to have everybody go thru the process I did, actually |
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reading the handbook, then helping out on the forms/lists/irc, whichever |
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they prefer, for at least a month, before they actually got a working |
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install up and running. It'd make people's experience a /lot/ smoother, |
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once they did get up and running. |
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|
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> Gentoo was a lot simpler then. There were no |
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> eselect news items to read because there was no eselect news. There was |
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> also no decent system to read the emerge notes, so Eldad Zack and I |
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> wrote one. |
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|
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I think comparing it to steering systems is reasonable. |
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|
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I installed from stage-1, because I wanted to understand it from the |
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ground up. And remember the bootstrapping script? Due to hardware issues |
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(borderline memory, really wasn't up to the clocking it was rated at, and |
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my system BIOS didn't have a way to underclock it until a BIOS update some |
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time later, after which it was solid as a rock on the same memory... until |
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I upgraded memory some years later), I couldn't get that whole script to |
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run at once, so I opened it up in an editor and did each step of the |
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script manually, redoing it, sometimes crashing and rebooting, until the |
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step completed successfully, after which I went to the next step. |
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|
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I'd compare that to "tracked vehicle steering". Like Caterpillars or |
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other tracked vehicles, where you steer with levers that stop the tracks |
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on one side or the other, while the other continues to turn, so the |
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vehicle turns toward the stopped side. |
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|
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Conventional stage-1 or stage-2 installs, like we did back then, without |
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eselect news, etc, would be like conventional direct steering, while using |
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the installer that was available for awhile, or a stage-3 tarball, is like |
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power steering. |
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|
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Each level is easier, but more complex and farther removed from the |
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details. Power steering is a lot easier than conventional steering, which |
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is easier than tracked vehicle steering, but you lose the feel for the |
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road -- the reason sports-car enthusiasts generally prefer manual steering |
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and gearing -- automatic/power takes all the fun out of it! |
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> I've had to learn a lot of stuff "the hard way" but as the |
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> years go by I have less and less patience with having to get under the |
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> hood and tinker. I'm kinda stuck with what I have. My servers are |
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> running mysql 5.0. If I took them off line to upgrade everything to |
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> mysql 5.1, every system on the boxes on which my customers depend would |
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> break - mail service, DNS, SpamAssassin, billing, to mention a few, and |
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> these would be down for who knows how long. I'm almost 70 years old. |
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> I'll probably sell my business and let someone else worry about this |
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> crap before I get everything truly up-to-date. |
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> |
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> As far as the desktop system goes, I'll probably build a 2nd box, maybe |
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> running another distribution, and migrate stuff to it incrementally. My |
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> time and my sanity have value, and doing this may be less costly, in the |
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> long run, than trying to hack this 5-year old box and being without a |
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> desktop (and my company's billing system, and my email, and my web |
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> development tools, etc. etc.) until I get it figured out. |
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|
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Wow! I'm often one of the older guys around, both in Linux dev circles |
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(I'm not really a dev but I enjoy hanging out with them and speaking the |
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lingo), where so many are in college, and quit when they get done and take |
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normal employment, and in my regular non-computer-related job. But I'm |
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only in my lower to mid 40s (nearing 44). |
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|
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I've often wondered how long I'll keep up with Linux and Gentoo... tho I |
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do find Gentoo a perfect match for me right now. I've been around Gentoo |
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for over six years now, and expect that if it's still around in updated |
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but reasonably similar purposed form a decade from now, I'll very likely |
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still be running it. Two decades... it's very tough to predict /what/ |
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computers will be like 20 years out, and Gentoo could easily be long gone |
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history by then, or changed so much it wouldn't be recognizable, but |
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still, it's conceivable that if it's still around, I might still be |
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running it. Put it this way: I don't foresee a reason to change, |
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assuming Gentoo's still around in similar purposed form, by then. |
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|
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70's a bit beyond that, for me. Hopefully I'm still in reasonable shape |
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by then. I've idly speculated what it might be like when my generation |
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gets to that age. We're really the first ones to have computers, at least |
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C64 level, as kids or teens. How will that affect our approach to |
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technology as we age? I really don't know, but I sort of have this |
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picture in my head of me being involved with and perhaps president of the |
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LUG in my retirement home! =;^) |
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|
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Would I still have the patience to run Gentoo, or would I be running |
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something really simple and hand-holdy, like Ubuntu, by then? What |
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questions to be contemplating! =:^) |
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|
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FWIW, I've read very good things about Arch, including from a number of |
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former Gentooers who got tired of the full from-source for /everything/. |
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Apparently, it allows a lot more control of the installation than most |
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binary distributions, with rather less hassle than Gentoo. Like Gentoo, |
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it's a rolling distribution, something I'd consider a bonus. If I were to |
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consider taking it down a notch, that would be the first one I'd try. So |
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that's what I'd suggest, if indeed you are considering taking it down a |
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notch. |
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|
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Beyond that, I think Debian unstable would be my next choice, for the |
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desktop, probably testing for servers. They're big enough to have the |
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power of numbers behind them, both people and packages, and are a |
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community distribution. Here at least, I consider that a good thing. |
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I've tried commercial/company-backed distributions and simply don't find |
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them appropriate for me. As such, I doubt I'll ever run a Mandriva, |
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Fedora, or Ubuntu, again, unless it happens due to my switching to the |
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computer field for my job, and it ends up just being simpler to run the |
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same thing on my own computers as well. But I don't see myself as happy |
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enough with such distributions to ever run them on my own. Thus, if I |
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/were/ to go mainstream binary distribution, Debian is almost certainly |
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what I'd choose, over the Redhats/Fedoras, NLSs/NLDs/SuSEs/OpenSuSEs, |
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Mandrivas, Ubuntus, etc. |
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> Enough of this geezer-rant. Peace and love to everyone in these crazy |
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> times. I mean it! |
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |