Gentoo Archives: gentoo-desktop

From: Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@×××.net>
To: gentoo-desktop@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-desktop] Re: kde-sunset: Calling base_src_prepare from kde.eclass
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:28:39
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-desktop] kde-sunset: Calling base_src_prepare from kde.eclass by Andrew John Hughes
1 Andrew John Hughes posted on Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:58:46 +0000 as excerpted:
3 > I've managed to rebuild most of KDE 3.5 against the new jpeg-8 library
4 > using the overlay. Many thanks for maintaining it!
5 >
6 > I think the removal from the main tree is premature. Not only is KDE 4
7 > still an unstable resource hog, but the KOffice developers explicitly
8 > state that 2.1:
9 >
10 > 'is not aimed at end users, and we do not recommend Linux distributions
11 > to package it as the default office suite yet.'
12 >
13 >
14 >
15 > Whoever removed it from the main tree has completely ignored this and
16 > decided to ship an incomplete office suite to users for the own
17 > convenience.
19 FWIW, I agree that it's premature, but it's not Gentoo's problem so much
20 as KDE's and Qt Software's, as both kde3 and qt3 are unsupported upstream,
21 thus, subject to security vulns, getting increasingly difficult to
22 maintain in the face of continuing system updates, etc. Why KDE refuses
23 to support the previous stable version until the new version is generally
24 stable as well, I don't know, but they don't. (Qt I can see a bit more,
25 as they're a commercial company, now part of Nokia, and supporting older
26 versions costs real money. It wasn't their fault that kde decided to go
27 for a full rewrite instead of a straight upgrade port, /then/ do the
28 rewrite when they have an existing stable kde based on a qt that's going
29 to be supported for awhile.)
31 FWIW, I've been quite pleased with kde 4.4. The upgrade from 3.x is still
32 likely to be a big nightmare for many, as so many things have changed and
33 there's some areas that other non-kde-core solutions will have to be used
34 instead, but that's to be expected with an upgrade of that size. I had
35 predicted with early 4.3 that based on evident rate of progress, 4.3 was
36 the first one I could in good conscience call late beta quality, and 4.4
37 should be rc quality with 4.5 hopefully finally reaching release quality.
38 4.4 has certainly met at least that prediction, here, and to my very
39 pleasant surprise, exceeded it to the point where I'm very nearly ready to
40 call it full release quality, the only things keeping me from doing so is
41 that I don't have all of kde installed, and haven't tested in 4.4 all of
42 what I do have installed, and the caution from having been burned so many
43 times previously by kde4. But kde's official position was that 4.2 was
44 ready for normal users, and that was terribly sad, because all it did was
45 demonstrate how terribly out of touch with reality they were.
47 Well, there's still one bug that could be a show-stopper. konqueror (and
48 all of KDE) SSL and certificate support and management isn't yet up to
49 what I'd call normal usable standards (it works in general, but the cert
50 management familiar to kde3 users is missing, with the result being that
51 it's broken on some sites with more exotic certificates -- good SSL and
52 certificate management is absolutely critical in this day and age when
53 many banking transactions and purchases are via web browser!). But
54 realistically, konqueror as a web browser is falling behind and looking to
55 be replaced by the webkit based rekonq browser after it matures a bit
56 more, enough so that few people use konqueror as their main browser any
57 more anyway, with chrome/chromium and firefox/iceweasel/icecat being the
58 major browsers picking up from konqueror, so this isn't the blocker it
59 could have been as there's honestly not that many people, even among kde
60 devs I gather, using konqueror as their primary browser anyway. But that
61 same support is used in a few other areas in kde as well, and it continues
62 to be problematic there.
64 Then of course as you mentioned, there's koffice. Just as it's really not
65 qt's fault that kde took so long to stabilize on a reasonably current
66 version, it's not so much kde-core's fault that koffice isn't yet properly
67 stable on kde4.
69 The same applies to other apps built on kde, such as k3b, possibly amarok
70 (which was bad enough, especially for amd64 users, that I got fed up and
71 switched to something else, thus the "possibly" as I don't know current
72 status), kaffeine, etc. But the k3b live version (ebuild available in the
73 kde overlay) is actually quite good, as I mentioned I gave up on amarok as
74 it never was a real good fit for me, and I found the very good qt4 based
75 smplayer to replace kaffeine, so the status on those isn't too bad. But
76 koffice... that remains a legitimate blocker, for those dependent on it
77 for their workflow.
79 --
80 Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
81 "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
82 and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-desktop] Re: kde-sunset: Calling base_src_prepare from kde.eclass Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@××××××××××.org>