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* Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
@ 2025-01-01 21:50 Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-01 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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Allow me to re-emphasize this topic 4 months later:

- Most of KDE projects have ported away to Qt6.
- No other DE/WM based on Qt5 is left in ::gentoo to benefit from the option.
- Therefore I do not plan to put any more time into Qt5 packaging, much less
  backporting LTS fixes to KDE Qt repositories.
- GCC, ICU, Python, ... may at any future release break Qt5, QtWebEngine in
  particular.

This is the work list:

https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/dev-qt/qtcore

If you recognise your package(s) in there, please drop Qt5 in favor of Qt6 
aggressively. If there is no Qt6-based upstream release yet, bug upstream 
about it. They may not even know yet this is important.

Happy New Year,
Andreas

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-01 21:50 Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible Andreas Sturmlechner
@ 2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
                     ` (3 more replies)
  2025-01-02 11:37 ` Ulrich Müller
  2025-01-28 20:53 ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2 siblings, 4 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andrey Grozin @ 2025-01-02  6:36 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

Here are some packages installed on my computer and (to various degrees) 
important for me which depend on Qt5

1. x11-wm/lumina
An excellent desktop environment. I use it for many years.
I contacted the upstream about the possibility to port it to Qt6. They 
said that before that they have to port it from qmake to cmake (work 
underway), then they will consider the possibility of the Qt6 port.

2. media-sound/qmmp
An excellent misic player. The site says there is qmmp2 based on Qt6, but 
I don't see in in Gentoo.

3. media-video/vlc
An excellent video played. Its GUI is Qt5 based.

4. app-text/master-pdf-editor
The only tool for editing pdf files. I have to use it every time I check 
and correct proofs of my papers, i.e., rather often. There is no 
replacement.

5. sci-visualization/gle
A very useful tool, its gui is Qt5 based. I use it practically every day, 
it is essential for my main work. But I use the command-line tool; 
personally for me, GUI is not important.

6. app-text/doxygen
GUI is Qt5 based. Personally I don't use the GUI.

7. sci-geosciences/qmapshack
The best tool to support large collections of gpx tracks. There is a 
partially working Qt6 port: translations and the help system are broken in 
it. Personally I can live without translations and the help system. But 
stabilizing this version is out of question.

So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my 
computer. In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number 
of useful programs have been created; not all of them have been ported to 
Qt6. Are we going to throw away all this wealth?

Andrey


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
@ 2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
  2025-01-02 11:22     ` James Le Cuirot
                       ` (4 more replies)
  2025-01-02 11:19   ` Lucio Sauer
                     ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 5 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Zoltan Puskas @ 2025-01-02 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

> 
> So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my computer.
> In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number of useful
> programs have been created; not all of them have been ported to Qt6. Are we
> going to throw away all this wealth?
> 

I have to agree with Andrey here, the list contains quite a few items that are
likely used by a lot of users and killing all these apps is going to be painful.

Is there a timeline for killing QT5 completely or will just QT5 be stuck at the
current version and patch level?

I understand that QT5 is considered deprecated, but doesn't KDE project still
maintain QT 5.15 for the time being? Can't we just keep that version?

Even if we report bugs upstream, it may take time to port all these projects,
especially the larger ones or if they are a single person project.

Additionally there are some projects where the community's influence is limited,
eg. Virtualbox which is controlled by Oracle.

Looking through the list:

app-office/kmymoney: I've been using this for accounting for more than a decade
now, and I'm not sure if there are any worthy alternatives to it to be honest,
nor do I want to go through a painful migration to some inferior accounting
program. It's important enough for me that I would consider switching distros if
I lost this, which would also mean I would end my involvement with Gentoo (i.e.
retire from all my proxy maintained packages) as a result.

Additional items on top of Andrey's list, that I'm familiar with (a lot of these
I use personally too):

app-backup/bacula: Fancy backup tool, while I don't use it personally, I know
many prefer it. Breaking it would break an important data workflow for people,
and while there are alternative backup solutions migrating is likely painful for
someone with extensive backups.

app-crypt/nitrokey-app: Isn't Nitrokey used officially by Gentoo devs?[1]
I'm not sure it's a good idea to loos this.

app-crypt/yubikey-manager-qt: I don't think there is an alternative UI for
managing Yubikeys. I don't use it any more as I switched to the CLI tool, but
again for users getting into hardware based 2-fac this is an invaluable tool.

app-editors/okteta: I like this hex editor, it's one of the best available under
Linux. Would be a great loss IMHO, and while I could swicth to hexedit or some
similar tool, it would not be the same.

app-emulation/virtualbox: Popular VM tool, I use this too. I'm aware for QEMU
but some things just work better with Virtualbox.

app-i18n/fcitx-qt: Anyone using Chinese/Japanese/Korean/etc. will be pissed if
this is gone.

app-office/scribus: Great software, I've used it to create posters for
conferences and what not. Again, not sure if there are any reasonable
alternatives for this.

dev-db/sqlitebrowser and dev-db/sqlitestudio: I've used it in the past, not
essential for my workflow, but I can see why people like these.

dev-embedded/ponyprog: Convenient piece of software to use with
microcontrollers, EEPROMS, etc. Again no real alternatives with such a wide
programming capability. I don't frequently need to program HW, but when I do I
prefer this.

kde-apps/marble: Awseome desktop globe and mapping program. I prefer this to
using OpenStreetMap in the browser. No alternative AFAIK.

media-gfx/krita: Great drawing program for artists, manga, etc. Not sure if
there is a equal quality alternative for it. I don't use it though.

media-gfx/luminance-hdr: HDR photo creation tool. Not sure if there are
alternatives for this.

sci-electronics/pulseview: Great for interfacing with logic analyzers (and
more), works with my Saleae (both OEM and clone) nicely, but there are no
alternatives for this really.

I'm sure there are other unique pieces of software, which if lost will
significantly reduce the usefulness and usability of Gentoo as a desktop OS
and will push users away.

Cheers,
Zoltan

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Infrastructure/Nitrokey_Pro_2_guide_for_Gentoo_developers


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
@ 2025-01-02 11:19   ` Lucio Sauer
  2025-01-02 19:39   ` Eli Schwartz
  2025-01-02 19:51   ` Sam James
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Lucio Sauer @ 2025-01-02 11:19 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

On Thu, Jan 02, 2025 at 06:36:32AM +0000, Andrey Grozin wrote:
> Here are some packages installed on my computer and (to various degrees)
> important for me which depend on Qt5
> 
> 4. app-text/master-pdf-editor
> The only tool for editing pdf files. I have to use it every time I check and
> correct proofs of my papers, i.e., rather often. There is no replacement.

Have you tried out app-text/xournalpp yet? It allows you to annotate
PDFs, add text and images and export the resulting xopp file back to PDF.
I use it at university to write proofs and to proofread my friends' essays.

-- 
Lucio Sauer


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
@ 2025-01-02 11:22     ` James Le Cuirot
  2025-01-02 11:29       ` Alexey Sokolov
  2025-01-02 19:03       ` Philip Webb
  2025-01-02 11:29     ` Daniel Buschke
                       ` (3 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: James Le Cuirot @ 2025-01-02 11:22 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Thu, 2025-01-02 at 03:13 -0800, Zoltan Puskas wrote:
> > 
> > So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my computer.
> > In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number of useful
> > programs have been created; not all of them have been ported to Qt6. Are we
> > going to throw away all this wealth?
> > 
> 
> I have to agree with Andrey here, the list contains quite a few items that are
> likely used by a lot of users and killing all these apps is going to be painful.

There may be some confusion here. The list includes packages like
www-client/vivaldi, which already support both versions. It is also sometimes
possible to simply rebuild against Qt6 with no changes but not always.

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* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:22     ` James Le Cuirot
@ 2025-01-02 11:29       ` Alexey Sokolov
  2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02 19:03       ` Philip Webb
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Alexey Sokolov @ 2025-01-02 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

02.01.2025 11:22, James Le Cuirot пишет:
> On Thu, 2025-01-02 at 03:13 -0800, Zoltan Puskas wrote:
>>> So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my computer.
>>> In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number of useful
>>> programs have been created; not all of them have been ported to Qt6. Are we
>>> going to throw away all this wealth?
>>>
>> I have to agree with Andrey here, the list contains quite a few items that are
>> likely used by a lot of users and killing all these apps is going to be painful.
> There may be some confusion here. The list includes packages like
> www-client/vivaldi, which already support both versions. It is also sometimes
> possible to simply rebuild against Qt6 with no changes but not always.


Yeah, to make this generated list more useful, would need to filter out 
lines with suffix like `:!qt6`, or something like that.




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
  2025-01-02 11:22     ` James Le Cuirot
@ 2025-01-02 11:29     ` Daniel Buschke
  2025-01-02 12:22     ` Viorel Munteanu
                       ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Buschke @ 2025-01-02 11:29 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev



Am 02.01.25 um 12:13 schrieb Zoltan Puskas:
>>
>> So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my computer.
>> In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number of useful
>> programs have been created; not all of them have been ported to Qt6. Are we
>> going to throw away all this wealth?
>>
> 
> Is there a timeline for killing QT5 completely or will just QT5 be stuck at the
> current version and patch level?

That's what I thought first, too. And I think that is the question which 
has to be answered before making a decision. As long as someone, who 
could be referred to as upstream, patches QT5, I would personally be 
fine with using QT5. But once that support drops, we are talking about 
an unsupported biiiiig piece of software which you don't want to have on 
your computer.

I searched the web and found a blog entry [1] talking about extended 
commercial(!) support ending mid 2025. But I don't know QT enough to 
qualify this information.

regards
Daniel


[1] 
https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-5.15-extended-support-for-subscription-license-holders


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-01 21:50 Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
@ 2025-01-02 11:37 ` Ulrich Müller
  2025-01-02 18:58   ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-28 20:53 ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Ulrich Müller @ 2025-01-02 11:37 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: Andreas Sturmlechner; +Cc: gentoo-dev

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>>>>> On Wed, 01 Jan 2025, Andreas Sturmlechner wrote:

> If you recognise your package(s) in there, please drop Qt5 in favor of Qt6 
> aggressively. If there is no Qt6-based upstream release yet, bug upstream 
> about it. They may not even know yet this is important.

Can you provide a pointer to a Qt upstream page saying that Qt 5 is
deprecated? Just for the case that the upstreams of my packages need
further convincing.

Ulrich

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* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
  2025-01-02 11:22     ` James Le Cuirot
  2025-01-02 11:29     ` Daniel Buschke
@ 2025-01-02 12:22     ` Viorel Munteanu
  2025-01-02 18:47     ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02 19:56     ` Sam James
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Viorel Munteanu @ 2025-01-02 12:22 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev


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La 02.01.2025 13:13, Zoltan Puskas a scris:
> Additionally there are some projects where the community's influence is limited,
> eg. Virtualbox which is controlled by Oracle.

VirtualBox 7.1 switched to QT6.  It is not yet stable, but it will be soon.

> sci-electronics/pulseview: Great for interfacing with logic analyzers (and
> more), works with my Saleae (both OEM and clone) nicely, but there are no
> alternatives for this really.

I don't use this one, but from what I've seen on their git it might 
support QT6.  I can look into it.


Regards,

Viorel


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* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
                       ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2025-01-02 12:22     ` Viorel Munteanu
@ 2025-01-02 18:47     ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02 19:56     ` Sam James
  4 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-02 18:47 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Donnerstag, 2. Jänner 2025 12:13:22 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit Zoltan 
Puskas wrote:
> > So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my
> > computer.
> > [...]
> 
> I have to agree with Andrey here, the list contains quite a few items [...]

My message did not seek to getting everyone prematurely mourn the loss of 
their favorite packages. Many of those listed already have Qt6 porting work in 
progress but aren't quite there yet. Those will be safe.

However, it should be absolutely clear that we cannot wait with preparations 
until the moment that Qt5 actually breaks. At that point our cleanup effort 
will be much more driven by dependency pressure lower down the stack.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:29       ` Alexey Sokolov
@ 2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-02 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Donnerstag, 2. Jänner 2025 12:29:01 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit Alexey 
Sokolov wrote:
> 02.01.2025 11:22, James Le Cuirot пишет:
> > On Thu, 2025-01-02 at 03:13 -0800, Zoltan Puskas wrote:
> > There may be some confusion here. The list includes packages like
> > www-client/vivaldi, which already support both versions. It is also
> > sometimes possible to simply rebuild against Qt6 with no changes but not
> > always.
> Yeah, to make this generated list more useful, would need to filter out
> lines with suffix like `:!qt6`, or something like that.

Where there is support for both right now, "drop support for Qt5 wherever 
possible" applies the cleanest.

So the list is fine either way and will show us a clearer picture where the 
hold-ups are the more we sanitise those packages.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:29       ` Alexey Sokolov
  2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
@ 2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-02 18:57 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Donnerstag, 2. Jänner 2025 12:29:01 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit Alexey 
Sokolov wrote:
> 02.01.2025 11:22, James Le Cuirot пишет:
> > On Thu, 2025-01-02 at 03:13 -0800, Zoltan Puskas wrote:
> > There may be some confusion here. The list includes packages like
> > www-client/vivaldi, which already support both versions. It is also
> > sometimes possible to simply rebuild against Qt6 with no changes but not
> > always.
> Yeah, to make this generated list more useful, would need to filter out
> lines with suffix like `:!qt6`, or something like that.

Where there is support for both right now, "drop support for Qt5 wherever 
possible" applies the cleanest.

So the list is fine either way and will show us a clearer picture where the 
hold-ups are the more we sanitise those packages.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:37 ` Ulrich Müller
@ 2025-01-02 18:58   ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-02 18:58 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Donnerstag, 2. Jänner 2025 12:37:47 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit Ulrich 
Müller wrote:
> Can you provide a pointer to a Qt upstream page saying that Qt 5 is
> deprecated? Just for the case that the upstreams of my packages need
> further convincing.

Not sure I can, without accompanying explanations:
https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-offering-changes-2020

Qt5 upstream (Qt Company) OSS support ended on 2020-12-08. Since then, bugs 
are only fixed if reproduced in Qt6 first, then backported. Since then, public 
availability of commercial 5.15 LTS releases is delayed by 1 year, including 
repository access for cherry-picking - this is important, see below, and 
affects Gentoo first and foremost.

The last official LTS release will be this April/May:
https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-5.15-extended-support-for-subscription-license-holders
https://wiki.qt.io/Qt_5.15_Release#Release_Plan

Public availability of this release will be *1 year later*. Some may think 
now, fine, updates (3 in total) until 2026! However, if a dependency/toolchain 
upgrade down the stack breaks Qt5 between now and March/April, to be then 
fixed in their final release, you will be waiting until April/May 2026 for 
that to be available. If it breaks later than April 2025, you will be waiting 
forever. In either case, you rely on downstream volunteer patchwork.

KDE Qt5PatchCollection ultimately relies on Qt company's upstream commits as 
well, so don't expect any original work from there to get things fixed. In any 
case, there is no clear EOL date for these patches, but they *will* be drying 
up as there is no main KDE consumer left, I certainly know that my 
contributions come to an end.
https://community.kde.org/
Qt5PatchCollection#For_how_long_will_this_be_maintained?


Gentoo Qt Policy page:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Project:Qt/
Policies#Handling_different_versions_of_Qt

Gentoo Qt migration notes:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Qt/Qt6_migration_notes

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:22     ` James Le Cuirot
  2025-01-02 11:29       ` Alexey Sokolov
@ 2025-01-02 19:03       ` Philip Webb
  2025-01-02 19:05         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Philip Webb @ 2025-01-02 19:03 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

250102 James Le Cuirot wrote:
> There may be some confusion here. The list includes packages
> like www-client/vivaldi, which already support both versions.
> It is also sometimes possible to simply rebuild against Qt6
> with no changes but not always.

When I updated to KDE 6 , I reluctantly had to drop Krusader,
but this thread prompted me to check its current status
& version 2.9.0 for KDE 6 is available in Testing.
I've installed it successfully & am looking forward to using it regularly.

What seems to be needed is a list of packages
which are (1) really important to some users
& (2) show no signs of being updated to KDE 6 in the foreseeable future.
Then some lobbying cb done to get that special problem solved.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatcadotinterdotnet



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 19:03       ` Philip Webb
@ 2025-01-02 19:05         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-02 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

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On Donnerstag, 2. Januar 2025 20:03:29 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit Philip 
Webb wrote:
> When I updated to KDE 6 , I reluctantly had to drop Krusader

When you updated to *Plasma 6*, nothing forced you to do that at all.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
  2025-01-02 11:19   ` Lucio Sauer
@ 2025-01-02 19:39   ` Eli Schwartz
  2025-01-02 19:51   ` Sam James
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Eli Schwartz @ 2025-01-02 19:39 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev


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On 1/2/25 1:36 AM, Andrey Grozin wrote:
> Here are some packages installed on my computer and (to various degrees)
> important for me which depend on Qt5
> 
> 1. x11-wm/lumina
> An excellent desktop environment. I use it for many years.
> I contacted the upstream about the possibility to port it to Qt6. They
> said that before that they have to port it from qmake to cmake (work
> underway), then they will consider the possibility of the Qt6 port.
> 
> 2. media-sound/qmmp
> An excellent misic player. The site says there is qmmp2 based on Qt6,
> but I don't see in in Gentoo.


Indeed, that is why if you visit https://packages.gentoo.org and search
for this package, there is a big infobox:

" Version 2.2.2 is available upstream. Please consider updating!"

So... do that? I bet the sound@ project would love your help here.


> 3. media-video/vlc
> An excellent video played. Its GUI is Qt5 based.


Supports Qt 6 in upstream git, not yet enabled in live ebuild. I bet the
media-video@ project would love your help here.


> 4. app-text/master-pdf-editor
> The only tool for editing pdf files. I have to use it every time I check
> and correct proofs of my papers, i.e., rather often. There is no
> replacement.


Proprietary software that ships with a bundled Qt5. There is a strong
rationale for debundling if possible, but in the event that Qt5 is
dropped from ::gentoo you can always respond to that action by switching
to the bundled Qt.

You are not beholden to the qt@ team's support policy here.


> 5. sci-visualization/gle
> A very useful tool, its gui is Qt5 based. I use it practically every
> day, it is essential for my main work. But I use the command-line tool;
> personally for me, GUI is not important.


Porting is rumored to be not hard. Try poking upstream about it:
https://github.com/vlabella/GLE/issues/13


> 6. app-text/doxygen
> GUI is Qt5 based. Personally I don't use the GUI.


Supports Qt 6 since 2022, not enabled in the ebuild. I trust that you
will agree with my analysis if I say that packages such as doxygen are
***the*** reason why Andreas is sending out email warnings asking for
people to migrate immediately.


> 7. sci-geosciences/qmapshack
> The best tool to support large collections of gpx tracks. There is a
> partially working Qt6 port: translations and the help system are broken
> in it. Personally I can live without translations and the help system.
> But stabilizing this version is out of question.
> 
> So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my
> computer. In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number
> of useful programs have been created; not all of them have been ported
> to Qt6. Are we going to throw away all this wealth?


Obviously nobody is proposing to throw away this wealth. For example,
the qt@ team will continue to maintain Qt 6, but you can take over
maintenance of Qt 5 for the sake of existing useful programs, and given
that the Qt 5 packages will then have a maintainer, there is no reason
to delete them.

But assuming neither you nor anyone else concerned about Qt5 volunteers
to personally maintain it, I don't comprehend what your objection is.

Andreas has explicitly, loudly, expressed an unwillingness to continue
devoting time and energy on Qt 5. Correspondingly, he has:

- issued a warning to that effect

- advised doing whatever you can to see packages start using Qt 6

- pointed out several potential reasons that may make Qt 5 fail to
  compile over the next year or so


What you do with that information is entirely up to you, but objecting
that Andreas is not permitted to determine the best use of his time is
not a valid option. Andreas will not maintain Qt 5 due to personal
choice, and the Treecleaner project will remove packages that are unable
to be compiled and installed if nobody fixes them.

Do not blame Andreas for the actions of the Treecleaner project.


This is all especially weird since *most* of the packages you mention
are examples of why this email was necessary and the packages in
::gentoo do need fixing or updating to enable the existing support for
Qt 6. And *all but one* of the packages have upstreams that are active
and interested in supporting Qt 6 if they don't already, with the
exception of the single proprietary package that ships its own Qt for
your convenience.


I do not see why you are sending a worried reply indicating you think
the situation is hopeless. Based on your list, the situation is the very
opposite of hopeless. And your list is just a bunch of action points
that you, yourself, can work on *today* in order to make things better.

Why all the doom and gloom?


-- 
Eli Schwartz

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
                     ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2025-01-02 19:39   ` Eli Schwartz
@ 2025-01-02 19:51   ` Sam James
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Sam James @ 2025-01-02 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: Andrey Grozin; +Cc: gentoo-dev

Andrey Grozin <grozin@gentoo.org> writes:

> Here are some packages installed on my computer and (to various
> degrees) important for me which depend on Qt5
>

I'll note again that at the moment, we're talking about "things which
support Qt 6, but the ebuild doesn't even acknowledge that right now, or
the ebuild still unnecessarily supports Qt 5."


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
                       ` (3 preceding siblings ...)
  2025-01-02 18:47     ` Andreas Sturmlechner
@ 2025-01-02 19:56     ` Sam James
  2025-01-03  2:38       ` Ionen Wolkens
  4 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Sam James @ 2025-01-02 19:56 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

Zoltan Puskas <zoltan@sinustrom.info> writes:

>> 
>> So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my computer.
>> In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number of useful
>> programs have been created; not all of them have been ported to Qt6. Are we
>> going to throw away all this wealth?
>> 
>
> I have to agree with Andrey here, the list contains quite a few items that are
> likely used by a lot of users and killing all these apps is going to be painful.
>
> Is there a timeline for killing QT5 completely or will just QT5 be stuck at the
> current version and patch level?
>
> I understand that QT5 is considered deprecated, but doesn't KDE project still
> maintain QT 5.15 for the time being? Can't we just keep that version?
>
> Even if we report bugs upstream, it may take time to port all these projects,
> especially the larger ones or if they are a single person project.

We best get started now then, which is the purpose of Andreas'
email. This is the warning to start filing those bugs and asking
upstreams to port if not done already. Not that we're going to last-rite
such packages tomorrow.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-02 19:56     ` Sam James
@ 2025-01-03  2:38       ` Ionen Wolkens
  2025-01-03 13:41         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 21+ messages in thread
From: Ionen Wolkens @ 2025-01-03  2:38 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1890 bytes --]

On Thu, Jan 02, 2025 at 07:56:03PM +0000, Sam James wrote:
> Zoltan Puskas <zoltan@sinustrom.info> writes:
> 
> >> 
> >> So, removing Qt5 will break computers of many users, including my computer.
> >> In the course of many years of existence of Qt5 a large number of useful
> >> programs have been created; not all of them have been ported to Qt6. Are we
> >> going to throw away all this wealth?
> >> 
> >
> > I have to agree with Andrey here, the list contains quite a few items that are
> > likely used by a lot of users and killing all these apps is going to be painful.
> >
> > Is there a timeline for killing QT5 completely or will just QT5 be stuck at the
> > current version and patch level?
> >
> > I understand that QT5 is considered deprecated, but doesn't KDE project still
> > maintain QT 5.15 for the time being? Can't we just keep that version?
> >
> > Even if we report bugs upstream, it may take time to port all these projects,
> > especially the larger ones or if they are a single person project.
> 
> We best get started now then, which is the purpose of Andreas'
> email. This is the warning to start filing those bugs and asking
> upstreams to port if not done already. Not that we're going to last-rite
> such packages tomorrow.

Right, albeit can add that anything depending on qtwebengine:5 should
hurry more than the rest. As asturm already noted it's going to break
faster than the rest and nobody really wants to handle keeping that one
working. Most users also don't want two qtwebengine on their systems.

Qt5 base packages aren't the biggest worry even if we leave them
semi-abandoned (not that qtcore isn't pretty quirky and already with a
lot of small issues that will likely get worse), albeit it'd be nice to
get to a few other Qt modules out of the equation as packages ideally get
aggressively ported.
-- 
ionen

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-03  2:38       ` Ionen Wolkens
@ 2025-01-03 13:41         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-03 13:41 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 641 bytes --]

On Freitag, 3. Jänner 2025 03:38:16 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit Ionen Wolkens 
wrote:
> Qt5 base packages aren't the biggest worry even if we leave them
> semi-abandoned (not that qtcore isn't pretty quirky and already with a
> lot of small issues that will likely get worse), albeit it'd be nice to
> get to a few other Qt modules out of the equation as packages ideally get
> aggressively ported.

Already existing trackers are:

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=qtscript-removal
 -> https://qa-reports.gentoo.org/output/genrdeps/rindex/dev-qt/qtscript

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=qtwebengine5-removal

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

* Re: Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible
  2025-01-01 21:50 Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible Andreas Sturmlechner
  2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
  2025-01-02 11:37 ` Ulrich Müller
@ 2025-01-28 20:53 ` Andreas Sturmlechner
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 21+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Sturmlechner @ 2025-01-28 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-dev; +Cc: Andreas Sturmlechner

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 494 bytes --]

On Mittwoch, 1. Jänner 2025 22:50:14 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit Andreas 
Sturmlechner wrote:
> Allow me to re-emphasize this topic 4 months later:
> [...]

One month later and Gentoo ebuild repository is already weighing around 100 
Qt5-based ebuilds less than at the beginning of the year. Several upstreams 
started working on Qt6 ports as a result of our pings, many packages have 
pending newly Qt6-based stabilisations.

Thanks to everyone who got involved so far!

Regards

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 21+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2025-01-28 20:54 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 21+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2025-01-01 21:50 Fwd: [gentoo-dev] Please actively drop support for Qt5 wherever possible Andreas Sturmlechner
2025-01-02  6:36 ` Andrey Grozin
2025-01-02 11:13   ` Zoltan Puskas
2025-01-02 11:22     ` James Le Cuirot
2025-01-02 11:29       ` Alexey Sokolov
2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
2025-01-02 18:57         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
2025-01-02 19:03       ` Philip Webb
2025-01-02 19:05         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
2025-01-02 11:29     ` Daniel Buschke
2025-01-02 12:22     ` Viorel Munteanu
2025-01-02 18:47     ` Andreas Sturmlechner
2025-01-02 19:56     ` Sam James
2025-01-03  2:38       ` Ionen Wolkens
2025-01-03 13:41         ` Andreas Sturmlechner
2025-01-02 11:19   ` Lucio Sauer
2025-01-02 19:39   ` Eli Schwartz
2025-01-02 19:51   ` Sam James
2025-01-02 11:37 ` Ulrich Müller
2025-01-02 18:58   ` Andreas Sturmlechner
2025-01-28 20:53 ` Andreas Sturmlechner

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