From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8C2F158046 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2024 11:23:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B266DE2A1E; Sat, 12 Oct 2024 11:23:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8495EE2A1B for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2024 11:23:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-7ea12e0dc7aso1788035a12.3 for ; Sat, 12 Oct 2024 04:23:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=psc.edu; s=google; t=1728732203; x=1729337003; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=jWQoibAOATg3pPjFJcluHfm4dhiYzW44xfF6fSS+O7k=; b=CGwrK1Us5E5T2HAYO+hRSKry+IthDzPYd1gecYLea2Ik1bMuTE5O+E2N5QkmLgqHML 8cngJQXipavpoXUf4V95j3PQ4UfG2Tt/1EP1TOGiaQ6e4Y55oQE4u3nITzO1gFEZIkao +ZyYMCU+4Ey9g0I6IsKflVnKROmE9Md7/LDC8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1728732203; x=1729337003; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=jWQoibAOATg3pPjFJcluHfm4dhiYzW44xfF6fSS+O7k=; b=VcKUSMNdHgoKuIAe1fdpaGyIXixmuGPLWX5QYe7ifaDKrK1Ri53h6/nwoj0nud5oaC NbeBw5EZjgKUnVUnJKbbJqHTAV2ziszYBuSkyP3YacS2n4s9Jgkb4MnfI6nme3w6K7H7 n+YND8tjOfcD6+/VHrdmaX0v8lLITCRlsRzf6oeKi85eeLX934dLnciRkommAgxcV+6V rukD3V93yuUdj2jPZz6em44vS/zisD4DcZfkX8vSrveT7lmcn4T29AyRPyhkl/26VuCT yqx5UR1kKcTSQpIebmT+qEGmOfZj/PwwVLMiuJF9mGV6KSa6WkPkH7BYmVPWnLwwbwt4 +9OQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwrldxUdyg1ybepex3Ns16L1K33IWnH20abmM/QLJLXT5hhvEHB KcHTON3tChTQoRbn9YpwZSYYi44MWNBAKoFetz0A4OhoGPuCLfrJQ571GmOfELd31NUKmWnL23V 12XSda08Ael4Y6dFkD1zzw4VP663yLKtUxQSDz9/oPGUtGCY4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGADif2CIPA0PzPsg4+IA4zMEIs7QwfrXdgByHe9JJMv57ym7XUZHxZ1T9u0ijG1paO+O733nBDGMT6SZ4joYs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:1346:b0:1d3:1765:c09c with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-1d8c95c2e5cmr3426771637.29.1728732202987; Sat, 12 Oct 2024 04:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mitchell Dorrell Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2024 07:23:14 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Splitting dev-lang/python into per-slot packages, starting with 3.14 To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000df0ed0062445d4e4" X-Archives-Salt: 2d50da3d-4f2a-46f1-9f86-f202d70c2d52 X-Archives-Hash: 3dbed287dfd6d0f7519edbf9409c48ed --000000000000df0ed0062445d4e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 06:23 Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrot= e: > On Sat, 2024-10-12 at 12:13 +0200, Ulrich Mueller wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny wrote: > > > > > > IMHO this would abuse the package name for information that > absolutely > > > > doesn't belong there. It belongs in PV or SLOT. > > > > > > > > To me it seems that you try to work around a problem (greedy upgrad= e > > > > behaviour) that should really be solved in the package manager. > > > > > In my opinion, it's the other way around. We have slots, that are a > fit > > > solution for packages that are roughly compatible between every major > > > release, and we keep abusing them for every single thing we can bend > > > enough to make it fit. > > > > So are you saying that Python versions aren't "roughly compatible" > > between releases? Like, they're a completely different language? > > They're not compatible in the sense "if I install package for > python3.12, it will work in python3.13", because every version uses > a separate package tree. Upstream has effectively made every version > separate. On top of that, the same "minor" version can have a PyPy > variation and a "freethreading" variation now. > > -- > Best regards, > Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny > How will this affect ebuilds that can use any version of Python 3? Will it need a giant or-block in DEPEND? > --000000000000df0ed0062445d4e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 06:23 Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
On Sat, 2024-10-12 at 12:13 +0200, Ulrich Muell= er wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 12 Oct 2024, Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny w= rote:
>
> > > IMHO this would abuse the package name for information that = absolutely
> > > doesn't belong there. It belongs in PV or SLOT.
> > >
> > > To me it seems that you try to work around a problem (greedy= upgrade
> > > behaviour) that should really be solved in the package manag= er.
>
> > In my opinion, it's the other way around.=C2=A0 We have slots= , that are a fit
> > solution for packages that are roughly compatible between every m= ajor
> > release, and we keep abusing them for every single thing we can b= end
> > enough to make it fit.
>
> So are you saying that Python versions aren't "roughly compat= ible"
> between releases? Like, they're a completely different language?
They're not compatible in the sense "if I install package for
python3.12, it will work in python3.13", because every version uses a separate package tree.=C2=A0 Upstream has effectively made every version<= br> separate.=C2=A0 On top of that, the same "minor" version can have= a PyPy
variation and a "freethreading" variation now.

--
Best regards,
Micha=C5=82 G=C3=B3rny

How will this affect ebuilds that can use any version= of Python 3? Will it need a giant or-block in DEPEND?
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