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On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:52:28AM +0200, Thomas Deutschmann wrote: |
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> On 2020-06-20 21:24, Aaron Bauman wrote: |
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> > Thomas, unfortunately, I am shocked at your choice of words here. I |
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> > think it is reasonable that any developer would understand a lack |
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> > of forward momentum in removing Py2 only packages only drives |
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> > stagnation. |
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> > |
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> > If you have a more effective method to doing so, I am open to |
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> > suggestions. |
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> |
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> Like I am shocked about your recent actions: |
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> |
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> Remember what you did in January. I thought it became clear that next |
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> time you will share your list before just masking stuff to avoid things |
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> which happened then. |
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> |
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|
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Developers have many tools and *hopefully* the organic ability to determine |
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which packages are impacted. Especially given previous threads on this |
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very ML with pleas from other Python team members to assist in cleaning |
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things up in a deliberate manner. |
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|
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This is why the QA team interceded... because a couple of individuals |
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screamed loudly for no reason. Fix it and move on. |
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|
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> In the beginning of this month you just decided to disband graphics |
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> project. On your own. Please tell me what gave you the authority to just |
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> do that? You didn't even share your plan before executing it on any |
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> mailing list. Something that should be common sense, if not even necessary. |
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> The whole action was so destructive that you couldn't evenb just undo it |
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> because you also deleted stuff on Wiki. |
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> |
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|
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I will not apologize for doing something that others have lacked the |
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intestinal fortitude to do. |
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|
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> Like multiple people have already shown you, many packages from that |
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> list are not even blocking Py3 transition. |
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> |
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|
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This isn't about transitioning to Py3... it is about removing Py2. |
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|
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> Let me tell you what a mask will cause: |
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> A mask is destructive and requires user interaction. Therefore a mask |
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> isn't something to play with, "Oh, let's test if someone will |
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> complain... it's just a mask, we can just unmask in case...". |
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> |
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|
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Is that why you assume I masked these things? |
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|
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> No, imagine there are people out there using Gentoo in production and |
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> not as playground. These people maybe have automated build systems which |
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> are creating systems/images (do you know Dockers for example?). Whenever |
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> you mask something and that package is referenced in configuration, you |
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> will break that build. |
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> |
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> That's not funny if this is happening for no real reason. |
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> |
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|
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I know you use Gentoo in production, but does this mean we (Gentoo) |
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can't move forward because *you* want to use something that is EOL and |
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dying? What if you used a major distro that removed Py2 support already? |
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Why complain here? There are other ways to safely run your tooling with |
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Py2 if you so choose. |
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|
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> |
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> > re: net-mail/offlineimap... there are alternatives. |
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> |
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> I think you don't really know that tool. It's an industry standard. |
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> Sure, there are already successors (however, not in Gentoo). But the |
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> package itself is still working and actively maintained and when you |
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> will use it in production you usually have extended/adjusted the tool |
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> for your environment using the plugin system the tool provides. That's |
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> not something you will be able to replace with something new in 5 minutes. |
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> |
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|
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You continuously speak condescendingly to me. I am truly starting to |
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regret my nomination for you on both the security project and for |
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council. Do you speak to others this way simply because you don't agree |
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with them? |
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|
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Yes, I use net-mail/offlineimap... I know how it works. No, I really |
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hope that a tool which has not been maintained in many years is an |
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"industry standard" |
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|
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Yes, there are successors in Gentoo. |
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|
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> And I repeat myself: Especially not when there is no need to do that |
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> because because the package itself is working fine and there is absolute |
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> no reason to get rid of it. |
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> |
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|
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Take Patrick's approach and move it to an overlay if you want it that |
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badly. |
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|
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> Last but not least: Gentoo is about choices. It's not your job to decide |
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> what people should use. Sure, if you maintained a package and will stop |
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> using it so it will become maintainer-needed and masked for removal at |
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> some point because it's outdated, vulnerable and/or not working anymore, |
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> that's OK. But if someone else will pick up this package... and |
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> offlineimap in Gentoo is working and up-to-date. |
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> |
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|
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Are you implying that because "Gentoo is about choice" that we never |
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remove an ebuild, interpreter, compiler, etc? Let ::gentoo grow in size |
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forever to appease the few? |
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|
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-- |
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Cheers, |
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Aaron |