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On June 26, 2020 7:13:07 AM EDT, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote: |
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>On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:07 PM Aaron Bauman <bman@g.o> wrote: |
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>> |
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>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 04:21:14PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: |
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>> > |
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>> > We're removing python2 around <date>. You can help us out by |
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>updating |
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>> > any packages you have that use python2. If you want to easily |
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>> > identify these packages just do <insert quick script here>. |
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>> > |
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>> > I think the problem here is that we're basically telling |
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>maintainers |
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>> > that the beatings will continue until morale improves. Then we're |
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>> > wondering why nothing is getting done. |
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>> > |
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>> |
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>> I am thoroughly confused here. Some how you have completely changed |
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>your |
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>> opinion from previous posts. |
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> |
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>Perhaps we failed to communicate then. My opinion has always been |
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>this: |
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> |
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>I support letting the python team manage the versions of python |
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>available - if people want legacy versions to stick around they need |
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>to do something to make it happen. |
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> |
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>HOWEVER, the python team would also find its job much easier if they |
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>partnered with the myriad of package maintainers to accomplish their |
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>goals, instead of just throwing them over the fence and then breaking |
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>things for users to try to get everybody's attention periodically. |
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> |
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|
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How have we *not* partnered with the community of devs? Michal's mails to the list? Previous discussions based on masks... |
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|
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>> |
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>> Of all the methods listed in the previous posts, the QA reports, etc. |
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>> there is no excuse individuals can't find out if their package is py2 |
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>> only. |
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> |
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>None of those methods were posted until a day or two ago, and the |
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>python team has done nothing to actually ensure all the impacted |
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>maintainers are aware of them. Perhaps a communication to |
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>-dev-announce with the preferred approach would be better? |
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> |
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|
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You should also look at qa-reports. Do we really need to *teach* others "how to fish" here? Why can't folks just ask for assistance? |
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All of it has been there and widely available for quite some time. Stop finding excuses. |
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|
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>You can't expect every Gentoo dev to independently cobble together a |
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>bunch of scripts to go hunting for py2 reverse deps. |
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> |
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|
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See above. Qa-reports will output a very nice list (even a graphic!) of such things. Anyway, yes, I do expect devs to understand their packages state if they maintain it. Don't be so myopic. |
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>> Ironically, it would be a very sad state if an individual doesn't |
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>know |
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>> what Python interpreter their package is compatible with. This is the |
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>> essence of "maintainer" status, correct? |
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> |
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>Maintainers generally care about what the package does, and how it |
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>does it is a means to an end. Sure, some care more about the build |
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>system and dependencies than others, and when working on a package you |
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>need to pay more attention to such things. However, I suspect most |
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>package maintainers do not know off the top of their head the |
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>dependency list of all their packages. |
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> |
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>> Obviously, the myriad of tools, ML threads, and all the other |
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>"avenues" |
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>> individual developers have taken to alert others simply doesn't |
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>work... |
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>> until something is p.masked... people don't budge. |
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> |
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>At least some devs here seemed surprised about the masks. Did you try |
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>filing a bug? |
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|
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Have you looked for said bugs? |
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|
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> |
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>Masking something for all users is basically like torturing a kitten |
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>to get the attention of its owner. It is a necessary step if the |
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>package is actually to be removed. I don't think it is even allowable |
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>under our policies if no bug was filed. |
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> |
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|
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Do tell where said policy is? |
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>But if filing bugs is painful at least make things easier on |
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>maintainers. Post a list of packages and owners, for example. |
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> |
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>It just seems like you're making things harder on yourself. Gentoo |
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>has done countless migrations like this and for whatever reason in the |
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>past creating a tracker and blocker bugs hasn't been a problem. |
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> |
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|
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Nothing is really hard about masking packages for removal... honestly. The work comes in defending the position here for the few that complain. If I filed a bug... they would complain or not respond... If I sent out a dev-announce they would complain or not respond. |
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You see the fun here? Which method is effective? Mask a 100 packages for removal... Someone complains... A few packages get saved and 90 get removed... Life goes on. |
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-Aaron |
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-- |
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Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. |