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On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:14:28 +0200 |
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Sebastian Pipping <sping@g.o> wrote: |
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> On 06/16/10 07:43, Jeroen Roovers wrote: |
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> > That's a conclusion first, then a premise? |
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> |
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> "Tone is not a strength of Gentoo" is my own obserservation. |
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> Please be more verbose - I fail to understand the core of your |
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> question. |
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I was responding two the two previous (quoted) paragraphs: |
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1> Tone is currently not a strength of Gentoo. |
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2> As I have heard there are people not joining Gentoo because the |
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2> atmosphere in Gentoo is lacking respect and empathy. |
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and the question was whether "the atmosphere in Gentoo is lacking |
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respect and empathy"(2) equals "bad tone"(1), whereby the latter |
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paragraph(the premise) serves to prove the former (the conclusion). In |
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my humble opinion, a lack of respect or a lack of empathy is not the |
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same as "bad tone". Whereby I take "bad tone" to mean is communicating |
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in a bad, possibly malicious way, like condescending or scathing in |
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nature. I guess bad communication could result from a lack of respect, |
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but that presupposes a history between the parties that do not show |
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each other respect. |
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A lack of empathy is something that really does bite us, as is already |
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explained by Roy, with his three cause of cumulative misunderstanding. |
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There's a language barrier, English is *not* the easiest language to |
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bring an unmistakable point across in, and on top of that there is a |
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problem, between people from different nations, of different sexes and |
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of different ages. |
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I'd say there is yet a fourth cause, which is that the Internet (that |
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thing appearing on your computer screen) offers far fewer moral |
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handholds than your typical brick-and-mortar environment with real |
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people in them. |
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> I have oberved this in #gentoo, in the forums and basically every |
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> thread releated to Python 3 - that topic seams to be a heat bomb. |
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> Are links to concrete threads really necessary? I'm afraid we'll be |
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> arguing about that very case and justifications for this and that |
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> sentence then. My concern are all threads together. |
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That's not much of an example. |
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> I agree with antarus that it shouldn't be the job of just DevRel to |
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> demand friendly tone on communication mediums but the job of everyone |
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> involved. |
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Well, on top of that, devrel already tried that once, and I think it |
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didn't work. |
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> As I understand you say that bad bug reports make it hard for you to |
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> stay friendly. Correct? |
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No, it is difficult to write a good response to any bug report. If you |
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need to write a response at all, the report is probably so bad it needs |
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to be closed (perhaps to be reopened later). A bad bug report takes more |
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time to wrangle than a good one, so the more bad bug reports, the |
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longer you need to wrangle them and the less time you have to |
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elaborate, inform, help or thank the reporters. Bad bug reports do make |
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me hesitantly find ways to say more with less, which some reporters |
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might find rude. It still isn't very obvious to me when I might behave |
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badly in someone else's view, but I do respond to such concerns when |
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they are raised (and take even more time to either defend my view or to |
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change the Summary around or to request more specific information or |
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output pertaining to a changed description). |
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> Any ideas what we could do on our end to improve the situation? |
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Well, apart from explaining technical stuff[1] as in the example above, |
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we could obviously explain how our developers work, how much most of |
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them get payed for doing that, inform users of our services what they |
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can and cannot expect to get. |
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jer |
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[1] We have a couple of pretty good guides[2][3] about using |
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bugzilla.g.o, but I suspect bug reporters who report badly tend to be |
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the same people who skip a three page lecture on how to report bugs. |
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[2] <http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/bugzilla-howto.xml> the official |
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thing, as referred to on <https://bugzilla.gentoo.org/>. |
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[3] <http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/bug-wranglers/index.xml> the |
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guide for bug-wranglers slash project page. |