Re: [gentoo-dev] Uncoordinated changes

[Michał Górny]

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:07:10 +0100
Patrick Lauer <patrick@g.o> wrote:

> On 02/12/2016 08:48 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> > Dear Ignorant Patrick,
> Hello human! Your politeness module seems to have crashed.

Please do not expect politeness when you insult someone.

> > On Thu, 11 Feb 2016 21:15:34 +0100
> > Patrick Lauer <patrick@g.o> wrote:
> >
> >> ... or why just changing stuff is not enough:
> >>
> >> A few days ago I was told that
> >> http://euscan.gentooexperimental.org/herds/ was displaying an empty
> >> list. Which is annoying because people sometimes want to see what
> >> upstream updates are available for their herd.
> >>
> >> Well, we renamed herd to project. Because reasons.
> > No, we didn't. Herd was collection a packages. Project is a collection
> > of developers. Project coexisted with herds for a long time. As it was
> > explained already in length. Multiple times.
> So you just pivoted the organization from A->B to B->A.
>
> I still don't see the advantage in that. Maybe I should have expressed
> my concerns more vocally, but in general I don't have time to worry
> about all the little things.

You still have trouble understanding who did what. I'm tired of being
blamed for something that wasn't my idea.

> >> I don't care how it is named, but this change broke euscan in a
> >> user-visible way. Now I could just try to rename things there too, but
> >> that won't work:
> >>
> >> euscan uses gentoolkit for parsing metadata.xml and herds.xml
> >> (Since herds.xml is basically unmaintained cruft at this point this will
> >> break soon anyway ... but ...)
> >> Changing gentoolkit to use projects.xml instead of herds.xml won't be a
> >> simple migration since the data organization changed.
> >>
> >> Now instead of looking up [metadata.xml] -> (herd name) -> [herds.xml]
> >> -> email it goes backwards:
> >> [metadata.xml] -> (maintainer type=project) -> email -> [projects.xml]
> >> -> Project name
> >>
> >> Since this involves XML and python's ElementTree library it's a
> >> nontrivial change that also removes a few now useless helpers
> >> (_get_herd_email has no reason to be, but we'd need a _get_herd_name
> >> helper instead. Err, get_proj ... ah well, whatever name works)
> >>
> >> And all that just so (1) gentoolkit output works and (2) euscan updates
> >> properly. Both of which I don't really care about much, but now that
> >> I've invested ~4h into debugging and trying to fix it I'm a tiny bit
> >> IRRITATED.
> > You are completely incorrect, as you have been told already multiple
> > times. People would really appreciate if you spent at least a little
> > part of the time you spend complaining, inventing issues and insulting
> > others listening to what they're telling you.
> >
> > So let me repeat, again. euscan works. Want packages from Python
> > project? Then select the appropriate maintainer from the 'maintainers'
> > section:
> So you're saying I have no way to search by herd, err, project now.

Yes, you have. You can use project's e-mail address to find
the project. And as I proved below, it works.

> ... and metadata is now partially broken.

Another of your unclear generic statements that mean nothing.

> *ahem* This not of good idea sounding.
> >
> > http://euscan.gentooexperimental.org/maintainers/python@g.o/
> >
> > Done. Was it that hard? Now the big surprise: you didn't have to create
> > some convoluted logic to get that! You don't need projects.xml to get
> > that! Of course, you'd know that if you would listen for a single
> > minute instead of throwing insults at others.
> If you had actually understood my criticism you would understand why I
> might be a tiny bit irritated.
>
> Some functionality is now actively *gone*, and that's not a feature.

Yes, it's gone. However, it's relatively easy to bring it back. All you
have to do is enable filtering by type="". Which is definitely simpler
than having to process two disjoint data structures, one of them
requiring parsing additional XML file. But well, unnecessary complexity
was always considered a feature in Gentoo.

> >> Please, next time someone has the brilliant idea of changing stuff just
> >> to change it (I still don't see a reason why we had to change
> >> metadata.xml?), it should be required that support tools are fixed
> >> *before* the change, and working versions released. This avoids grumpy
> >> people and makes it harder for those that change things to head-in-sand
> >> and claim everything works as expected when it obviously doesn't.
> > The fact is: things *work as expected*. If you have problem accepting
> > reality as it is, then it's your fault, not ours. Herds no longer
> > exist. Everything is based on *maintainers* now. Tools are not supposed
> > to magically turn project information back into herd-oriented design.
> Right, so gentoolkit returning bad info is a good thing. I find that
> hard to integrate into my understanding of the world ...

Again.

> Please don't redefine what 'expected' means to suit your limited
> usecases. It just causes friction and unhappy response from people that
> now have to spend lots of time figuring out how things diverge from
> their 'expected', which usually ends in *facepalm* omg how did that happen.
>
> Plus the usual sequence of strongly-worded letters to the UN ;)

I can't redefine it to suit unlimited usecases. I presume you're
capable of doing that. That's good news. I wonder why you haven't used
that ability to do something good.

> > As I said before, please direct any further complaints directly to
> > the Council, and stop insulting the messenger. The Council has banned
> > herds explicitly before I even started working on GLEP 67. It was
> > the guideline I had to follow.
> >
> Hey thanks for publically demonstrating your unwillingness to cooperate
> with others.

That's your opinion. Please do not expect people to be willing
and happy to work with toxic personalities like yours. So far you have
put a lot of effort on spreading confusion, making noise and doing no
good. I'd rather focus on doing something useful.

> So now I know that in the future I will
>
> (1) categorically deny any change requests coming from you and
> (2) block/revert any changes that I don't like or understand.
>
> Nothing personal, just basic sanity.

If you want to leave Gentoo, please do that without unnecessary drama.
That will reduce the load on ComRel and/or QA resulting from your CoC
violations and childish behavior, and reduce the discouragement you're
causing to other developers.

-- 
Best regards,
Michał Górny
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~mgorny/>