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Alec Warner posted on Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:53:03 -0700 as excerpted: |
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> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote: |
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>> I'd argue that it is impossible to "accept a license" in the |
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>> first place. It is possible to agree to a contract if there is |
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>> consideration on both sides and a meeting of the minds. |
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> |
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> That doesn't mean you didn't / cannot accept, merely that some (all?) |
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> provisions are likely unenforceable in a court of law. I don't think |
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> EULAs have been ruled illegal yet. |
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> |
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>> Copyright says you can't copy something. A license says you might be |
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>> able to. You don't have to "accept" a license to benefit it. A |
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>> license does not restrict what a user can do, it restricts what the |
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>> person issuing the license can do (I can't sue you for redistributing |
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>> my code if I licensed it to you under the GPL). Some licenses are |
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>> conditional - I only limit my own ability to sue you if you give people |
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>> a copy of the source for any binary you give them, and if you don't do |
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>> that I am now free to sue you. |
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> |
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> Have you read the yEd license? I mean it does restrict what users can |
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> do: |
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> "The Software may not be used as part of an automated process. The |
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> Licensee may not reverse engineer, disassemble, decompile, or unjar |
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> the Software, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code of the |
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> Software." |
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> |
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> How is that not restricting what the end user can do? |
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I believe he's viewing it in the context many explanations of the the GPL |
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take pains to explain, namely: |
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Since copyright law prohibits copying (and in some cases, reading into |
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computer memory for purposes of execution has been held to be copying in |
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the context of copyright as well!!) without permission in the first |
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place, it is as rich0 says, COPYRIGHT law that default-forbids doing |
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anything at all with that string of binary data that happens to form the |
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software. |
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|
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As rich0 further points out, licenses modify that default-no state to |
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allow the user some privileges they'd otherwise be denied by copyright |
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law. Many of them, including the GNU General Public License (GPL) and |
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the yEd license, do so conditionally. They allow the privileges IF AND |
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ONLY IF certain conditions are met. |
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In the case of the GPL, these conditions, only apply to distributors, |
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mere end-users are free and clear of all such conditions as long as they |
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don't redistribute to others. Further, the conditions on distributors |
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are designed to ensure that end users of any derived programs get the |
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same rights from the folks that distribute it to them. |
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In the case of most EULAs including the yEd license, by contrast, |
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distribution is simply reserved as a right to the owning company |
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(separate agreements are needed for distribution rights), and permission |
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to copy and use the work under copyright is granted to the end-user only |
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under rather severe conditions. But from the viewpoint of copyright, |
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it's simply an agreement by the owner to give you permission to copy and |
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use under certain stated conditions, thus limiting their right to sue, |
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but only to the extent that you're in compliance with the (in the case of |
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most EULAs, conditional to an extreme) license (which is itself limited |
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by laws that grant various "fair use" rights that differ by jurisdiction). |
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|
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Thus, by this view, a EULA isn't limiting to the user, because all it's |
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doing is granting (perhaps conditional) rights that would otherwise be |
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reserved to the copyright owner only, under copyright law. Someone can |
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thus choose not to be subject to the license, or simply to ignore it |
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entirely. That's fine as long as they aren't doing something that |
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copyright says they can be sued for. But if they are doing something |
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copyright says they could be sued for, and they draw the attention of the |
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owner and/or their legal representatives, then to the extent that the |
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license allows it, it's in their interest to claim the legal coverage of |
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the license to prevent being sued by that owner/owner-representative. |
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Which is what makes relatively liberal licenses such as the GPL so |
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strong. Since they allow so much, with relatively light conditions, it's |
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very strongly in the interest of parties who might otherwise be sued to |
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comply with the GPL instead. With rather more restrictive EULAs, not so |
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much, since the EULA has such strict conditions. In that case, it's far |
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harder to comply with and far more likely that a copyright violator will |
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be violating the EULA's conditions as well, so claiming the protections |
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of the license doesn't tend to help as much, except to the extent that |
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there really is a disagreement about the conditions of said license. |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |