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On R, 2008-05-30 at 22:37 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: |
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> On Sat, 31 May 2008 00:31:22 +0300 |
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> Mart Raudsepp <leio@g.o> wrote: |
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> > On R, 2008-05-30 at 20:20 +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: |
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> > > On Fri, 30 May 2008 21:13:32 +0200 |
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> > > Luca Barbato <lu_zero@g.o> wrote: |
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> > > > Talk to the upstream about this, probably getting a satisfying |
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> > > > solution isn't that difficult. |
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> > > |
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> > > The solution is to use --as-needed in the same way that -ffast-math |
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> > > is used: only with applications specifically designed to support it. |
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> > |
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> > You mean everything but paludis? |
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> |
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> Paludis is fine with as-needed. But hey, don't let reality get in the |
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> way of your pathetic attempts at turning everything into Paludis |
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> bashing. |
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It happens to be the only package that I know of that couldn't be fixed |
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to work with --as-needed (fix for others being to actually state linking |
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with a library whose symbols are directly used). I have not heard of |
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anything else. |
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|
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> > Doesn't your grand plan include supporting Prefix and Interix with PE |
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> > binaries and so on? |
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> |
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> I have no particular interest in supporting any platform that can't |
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> ship a Standard-compliant C++ environment. |
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That doesn't mean Gentoo progress, in maintainability of a running |
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system through the ease of ABI breaks meaning magnitudes of less |
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recompilations, should be inhibited. |
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|
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> > I know projects that need to work around static initialization not |
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> > being reliable - they only happen to have done that for other reasons |
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> > (such as Windows PE format, iirc) years before --as-needed was |
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> > implemented for binutils. |
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> > Standards is one thing - reality is something quite different. |
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> > The reality is that everything designed to work everywhere is just |
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> > mighty happy with --as-needed and lots of benefits to gain from it. |
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> |
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> And twenty years ago C++ had to work around linkers that only supported |
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> eight character symbol names. Reality moves forward, except in |
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> situations like these where people try to rice it backwards. |
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|
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Maybe you'd like to tell that to the authors of the platforms that don't |
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support this extreme corner case, but are amongst the platforms that we |
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do somewhat support in Gentoo? |
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The story that matters here is, that a C++ corner case that does not |
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work on 0.01% of packages with --as-needed and breaks on non-ELF |
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platforms, should not cause good things for our users to be shot down. |
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|
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99.9% packages in the tree work just great with --as-needed with many |
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benefits, including ABI break pain reduction (and less importantly |
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memory savings from dirty library private memory pages), so given that |
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percentage the default should be what makes things better for users with |
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exceptions for those tiny percentage of packages that fall into the |
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corner case (that break on more exotic platforms anyway and arguably |
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should be fixed). |
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|
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Portage developers - is there anything we should do to get --as-needed |
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to make.conf.example and other places, beyond fixing the known bugs on |
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the appropriate bug tracker? |
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-- |
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Mart Raudsepp |
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Gentoo Developer |
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Mail: leio@g.o |
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Weblog: http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/leio |
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-- |
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