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On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 08:24:51 -0500 |
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james <garftd@×××××××.net> wrote: |
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> |
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> As a team, we could have a simple default program for a simple default |
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> disk format, and a variety of 'stage-4' images, maybe updated every 3 |
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> months, to get a gentoo system up, quickly. Not an anything you want |
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> it to be, but a few, common choices. Perhaps a security apparatus, |
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> commonly needed, built on the hardened project? (like a bridge or a |
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> firewall)? |
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I for one miss the days where Stage-1 was the defacto install, and |
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Stage-3 was "For lazy people who just wanted to use something". |
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When we transitioned to making Stage 3 the default, it was like, heresy. |
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Stage 4? :) |
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I highly encourage people to randomly hurt themselves by attempting an |
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unsupported Stage 1 install, just to find what breaks. |
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> Let them use java* codes, as that is what all the universities are |
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> teaching and promoting. I agree |
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> with gentoo proper on severely restricting java*, on gentoo-proper, |
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> but that sort of thing is killing gentoo and just appears to the open |
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> world as a filter mechanism to keep out and go elsewhere, snoot. |
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> There are just too many exciting and useful codes out there running |
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> java. |
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"All" ? Some. And the dominance and focus on Java is itself telling of |
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the quality and type of the education provider. |
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Some education providers may not touch Java at all, and focus |
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predominantly on C. |
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You can't satisfy everyone out of the box. |
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The rest of your response kinda rotates around a central axiom that |
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makes other Linux distributions effective, and "Easy": |
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The lack of choice, a tailored work flow, a target audience, and a |
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narrow focus on what the vendor delivers. |
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Gentoo is fundamentally unlike these things, because the Gentoo way has |
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always been first and foremost about *user choice* and *maximising user |
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choice* |
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The reality is a giant hunk of the world are *not interested in choice* |
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They want something that works and get out of their way. |
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That's why proprietary systems with deep, vertical architecture and |
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product lock-in are still incredibly popular. |
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They understand their market, and they focus on making things work for |
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that market by tailoring it to a very narrow set of features that |
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satisfies 95% of its target. |
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Gentoo's target audience is decidedly that other 5%, the group of |
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people who don't mind getting their hands dirty, the group who wade up |
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to their elbows dealing with horrible problems because that's the |
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consequence of the power of choice. |
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You can promote pre-boxed Gentoo products if you want, I just think |
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you're barking up the wrong tree if you think doing that will help |
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anybody. |
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As with most open source, it requires volunteer effort to make this |
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happen, and its a hard sell to try to convince existing staff to spend |
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more time on producing a thing that exists only to *reduce* user choice |
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for the sake of convenience. |
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And I just think most of our devs have more interesting problems to |
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solve than that, and you'd be simply weakening the core Gentoo |
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development team by trying to steal existing Gentoo staff to engineer |
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this carefully designed and polished "Just Works For Noobs" platform. |
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And even then, I think if you did OK, it would be striving for the |
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wrong thing. |
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If you're going to come to a competition that has existing major |
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players ( such as the "noob friendly" linux desktop market ), you have |
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to not be simply a "me too!" in order to hope for success. |
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You have to have something unique that blows all the competition out of |
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the water in at least one way, that capitalises on an un-tapped need. |
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Anything else will just be some pathetic copy-cat attempt. |
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And for Gentoo, our "Unique Edge" *is* our configurability, our |
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incredibly effective and convenient flexibility. |
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Sacrificing our primary benefit to chase after some other market |
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half-assedly ... I can't see that panning out well myself. |
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Personally, I think we need to double down on what we're good at, |
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flexibility, and configurability. |
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Find ways of building systems at the users behest that do exactly what |
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they want easily, and not assume we know what is best for our users. |
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Anything else and Gentoo will go in the direction of the sad sorry |
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state of the Linux Desktop, where neither GTK/Gnome or QT/KDE are very |
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useable anymore, and they've become encumbered with horribly lethargic |
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and bloated design, because they were all trying too hard to chase what |
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they thought people wanted, the standard established by Windows and OSX |
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for "Easy". |