Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Cedric Veilleux <cedric@×××××××.com>
To: gentoo-dev@g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:20:53
Message-Id: 200304130523.26770.cedric@neopeak.com
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer by Jeff Rose
1 Why not simply use gentoo's livecd?
2
3 The livecd can boot the user into a fully loaded console or X workstation,
4 with all the tools needed.
5
6 The installer could be an additional tool on the liveCD system.. Anybody knows
7 a GUI abstration toolkit that can generate either terminal based or X based
8 interface, depending on what's available at runtime?
9
10 This way the same installer could be used if X is not working or can't be
11 used.
12
13 In both environment (terminal / X), multitasking would be possible so
14 experienced users could perform manual tasks while the installer is waiting
15 for input..
16
17
18 Just my 2 cents,
19
20 Cedric
21
22
23
24
25
26 Le 13 Avril 2003 04:49, Jeff Rose a écrit :
27 > Well, I'm glad to see that people are interested. After doing some
28 > initial research I have some thoughts. First, we should decide on whether
29 > we want to have a terminal or X based installer. Does anyone know how
30 > well the generic vesa driver works for X? I personally have battled with
31 > X so many times that I'm not sure I think its worth it for an installer.
32 > (Although we could just use the RedHat stuff for autodetection etc. if we
33 > want to go that direction.) Besides X we could use ncurses dialog
34 > widgets or another terminal gui package. I was thinking it would be cool
35 > to use somethine lighter than X like svgalib. I have no experience with
36 > it and don't know how cross platform (or cross video card) it is, but it
37 > could be a cool solution if a decent widget set is put on top of it. I'm
38 > not sure if this would lead to more or less work than using X.
39 > As for choosing stages, that should be a decision made by the user
40 > at install time. We can very briefly explain how the system works and let
41 > them do what they please. For the complete novice we can basically have
42 > the "do everything for me" button. For the supreme hacker we can let them
43 > have it all while still taking care of mundane details. (For example,
44 > they could choose what file systems they want to use on what partitions,
45 > but that would just be a selection dialog rather than having to type the
46 > commands etc...) It might be nice if the installer can be exited at any
47 > point so people have the ability to get things rolling quickly but then
48 > tweak things out to their hearts content once its where they want it.
49 > One of the major pains in the redhat like installers deals with
50 > package selection. I think it is ridiculous to give people a list of a
51 > thousand packages and tell them to pick. Especially since the package
52 > documentation is horrible. Most people probably wouldn't know that its
53 > important for them to have the e2fsprogs installed, for example. So, this
54 > is the portion of the installer where I see the most room for innovation.
55 > Especially since gentoo has such a unique package system, we should really
56 > try to enable the user as much as possible, rather than just hucking a
57 > bunch of packages into the mix. I'm still working on ideas, but we should
58 > experiment with all kinds of stuff to get this stage really smoothed out.
59 > This idea of processor detection makes me think that a whole lot
60 > of detection could go on if we wanted it to. The thing is detection is
61 > useless unless you can act on what you have detected. Changing some CPU
62 > related compiler flags is one thing, but what about detecting network,
63 > sound, video, raid, scsi, firewire, printers etc. This could all get very
64 > tricky real fast. What about using RedHats kudzu?
65 >
66 > Peace,
67 > Jeff
68 >
69 > On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Derek J. Belrose wrote:
70 > > The only problem I see with doing this is how to represent it in a user
71 > > friendly, yet power user accessible fashion. Maybe if you are using
72 > > anaconda, you could have the power user abilities under "Amazing super
73 > > power user" setting :)
74 > >
75 > > Grabbing the processor isn't difficult, build a small database of known
76 > > processors and compare it to /proc/cpuinfo.
77 > >
78 > > At this point, what would you use for a install? Stage1, 2 or 3? Stage
79 > > 3 would be the quickest in my opinion as well giving the user a really
80 > > good launching pad for an optimized system.
81 > >
82 > > Cliff Free wrote:
83 > > >I think a GUI installer would be great if done correctly. The
84 > > >interface, obviously, should be easy to use, but in the spirit of
85 > > >Gentoo, shouldn't limit the user with what he can do. On a side note, I
86 > > >also think it would be cool to have the ability to detect the processor
87 > > >type(s) and include some optimization flags for the detected
88 > > >processor(s) (I also feel this feature should be able to be toggled so
89 > > >hard-core power-users would still have the option to fine-tune to their
90 > > >heart's content, and that by default the feature would be OFF. Maybee
91 > > >the detection system would only augment CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS in
92 > > >make.conf. and/or make.conf settings would override what's detected.)
93 > > >Just my 2 cents worth. Doing this correctly could prove to be a
94 > > >daunting task.
95 > > >
96 > > >On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 01:38, Derek J. Belrose wrote:
97 > > >>Is the Mandrake install system based on RedHat's anaconda? If it is,
98 > > >>it's nicely written python...but you'll have to seriously hack it to
99 > > >> get rid of the neat little rpm stuff :)
100 > > >>
101 > > >>I'd be willing to help out a bit on this too...gotta get it going for
102 > > >>Gentoo-Sparc :)
103 > > >>
104 > > >>Derek
105 > > >>
106 > > >>Justin Whitney wrote:
107 > > >>>I think some or all of Mandrake's install system is under GPL as well,
108 > > >>>so you might want to check that out.
109 > > >>>
110 > > >>>--Justin
111 > > >>>
112 > > >>>On Fri, 2003-04-11 at 19:04, Jeff Rose wrote:
113 > > >>>>Hello,
114 > > >>>> I'm pretty new to gentoo, but I am an instant convert. Just a
115 > > >>>>few months of emerge bliss and now I'm an avid supporter. Anyway,
116 > > >>>> I'm thinking about starting a summer project and I'm pondering the
117 > > >>>> idea of a gui installer. I've been looking around a bit and it
118 > > >>>> doesn't look like anyone is working on one. Is that true? If there
119 > > >>>> isn't already a project then I think I'll give it a whirl. I know,
120 > > >>>> I know, gentoo is so great because it allows you to customize and
121 > > >>>> tweak the hell out of everything. That is completely true. So, an
122 > > >>>> installer would have to allow just as much but it could take care of
123 > > >>>> the mundane details for those who aren't interested or knowledgable
124 > > >>>> enough.
125 > > >>>> I haven't been around to see what people discuss in terms of the
126 > > >>>>installer so I'm sorry if this is all stuff that you have gone over
127 > > >>>>hundreds of times. Even more minimal than a gui installer, have you
128 > > >>>>thought about adding more scripts to do the standard directory setup,
129 > > >>>>download, chroot... type of stuff?
130 > > >>>> What do you think?
131 > > >>>>
132 > > >>>>-Jeff
133 > > >>>>
134 > > >>>>
135 > > >>>>--
136 > > >>>>gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list
137 > > >>>
138 > > >>>--
139 > > >>>gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list
140 > > >>
141 > > >>--
142 > > >>gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list
143 > >
144 > > --
145 > > gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list
146 >
147 > --
148 > gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list
149
150
151 --
152 gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer "Derek J. Belrose" <derek@×××××××××.com>