Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Cedric Veilleux <cedric@×××××××.com>
To: gentoo-dev@g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 09:20:53
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer by Jeff Rose
Why not simply use gentoo's livecd?

The livecd can boot the user into a fully loaded console or X workstation, 
with all the tools needed.

The installer could be an additional tool on the liveCD system.. Anybody knows 
a GUI abstration toolkit that can generate either terminal based or X based 
interface, depending on what's available at runtime?

This way the same installer could be used if X is not working or can't be 

In both environment (terminal / X), multitasking would be possible so 
experienced users could perform manual tasks while the installer is waiting 
for input..

Just my 2 cents,


Le 13 Avril 2003 04:49, Jeff Rose a écrit :
> Well, I'm glad to see that people are interested. After doing some > initial research I have some thoughts. First, we should decide on whether > we want to have a terminal or X based installer. Does anyone know how > well the generic vesa driver works for X? I personally have battled with > X so many times that I'm not sure I think its worth it for an installer. > (Although we could just use the RedHat stuff for autodetection etc. if we > want to go that direction.) Besides X we could use ncurses dialog > widgets or another terminal gui package. I was thinking it would be cool > to use somethine lighter than X like svgalib. I have no experience with > it and don't know how cross platform (or cross video card) it is, but it > could be a cool solution if a decent widget set is put on top of it. I'm > not sure if this would lead to more or less work than using X. > As for choosing stages, that should be a decision made by the user > at install time. We can very briefly explain how the system works and let > them do what they please. For the complete novice we can basically have > the "do everything for me" button. For the supreme hacker we can let them > have it all while still taking care of mundane details. (For example, > they could choose what file systems they want to use on what partitions, > but that would just be a selection dialog rather than having to type the > commands etc...) It might be nice if the installer can be exited at any > point so people have the ability to get things rolling quickly but then > tweak things out to their hearts content once its where they want it. > One of the major pains in the redhat like installers deals with > package selection. I think it is ridiculous to give people a list of a > thousand packages and tell them to pick. Especially since the package > documentation is horrible. Most people probably wouldn't know that its > important for them to have the e2fsprogs installed, for example. So, this > is the portion of the installer where I see the most room for innovation. > Especially since gentoo has such a unique package system, we should really > try to enable the user as much as possible, rather than just hucking a > bunch of packages into the mix. I'm still working on ideas, but we should > experiment with all kinds of stuff to get this stage really smoothed out. > This idea of processor detection makes me think that a whole lot > of detection could go on if we wanted it to. The thing is detection is > useless unless you can act on what you have detected. Changing some CPU > related compiler flags is one thing, but what about detecting network, > sound, video, raid, scsi, firewire, printers etc. This could all get very > tricky real fast. What about using RedHats kudzu? > > Peace, > Jeff > > On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Derek J. Belrose wrote: > > The only problem I see with doing this is how to represent it in a user > > friendly, yet power user accessible fashion. Maybe if you are using > > anaconda, you could have the power user abilities under "Amazing super > > power user" setting :) > > > > Grabbing the processor isn't difficult, build a small database of known > > processors and compare it to /proc/cpuinfo. > > > > At this point, what would you use for a install? Stage1, 2 or 3? Stage > > 3 would be the quickest in my opinion as well giving the user a really > > good launching pad for an optimized system. > > > > Cliff Free wrote: > > >I think a GUI installer would be great if done correctly. The > > >interface, obviously, should be easy to use, but in the spirit of > > >Gentoo, shouldn't limit the user with what he can do. On a side note, I > > >also think it would be cool to have the ability to detect the processor > > >type(s) and include some optimization flags for the detected > > >processor(s) (I also feel this feature should be able to be toggled so > > >hard-core power-users would still have the option to fine-tune to their > > >heart's content, and that by default the feature would be OFF. Maybee > > >the detection system would only augment CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS in > > >make.conf. and/or make.conf settings would override what's detected.) > > >Just my 2 cents worth. Doing this correctly could prove to be a > > >daunting task. > > > > > >On Sun, 2003-04-13 at 01:38, Derek J. Belrose wrote: > > >>Is the Mandrake install system based on RedHat's anaconda? If it is, > > >>it's nicely written python...but you'll have to seriously hack it to > > >> get rid of the neat little rpm stuff :) > > >> > > >>I'd be willing to help out a bit on this too...gotta get it going for > > >>Gentoo-Sparc :) > > >> > > >>Derek > > >> > > >>Justin Whitney wrote: > > >>>I think some or all of Mandrake's install system is under GPL as well, > > >>>so you might want to check that out. > > >>> > > >>>--Justin > > >>> > > >>>On Fri, 2003-04-11 at 19:04, Jeff Rose wrote: > > >>>>Hello, > > >>>> I'm pretty new to gentoo, but I am an instant convert. Just a > > >>>>few months of emerge bliss and now I'm an avid supporter. Anyway, > > >>>> I'm thinking about starting a summer project and I'm pondering the > > >>>> idea of a gui installer. I've been looking around a bit and it > > >>>> doesn't look like anyone is working on one. Is that true? If there > > >>>> isn't already a project then I think I'll give it a whirl. I know, > > >>>> I know, gentoo is so great because it allows you to customize and > > >>>> tweak the hell out of everything. That is completely true. So, an > > >>>> installer would have to allow just as much but it could take care of > > >>>> the mundane details for those who aren't interested or knowledgable > > >>>> enough. > > >>>> I haven't been around to see what people discuss in terms of the > > >>>>installer so I'm sorry if this is all stuff that you have gone over > > >>>>hundreds of times. Even more minimal than a gui installer, have you > > >>>>thought about adding more scripts to do the standard directory setup, > > >>>>download, chroot... type of stuff? > > >>>> What do you think? > > >>>> > > >>>>-Jeff > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>-- > > >>>>gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list > > >>> > > >>>-- > > >>>gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list > > >> > > >>-- > > >>gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list > > > > -- > > gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list > > -- > gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list
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Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer "Derek J. Belrose" <derek@×××××××××.com>