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Mike Frysinger posted on Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:46:21 -0500 as excerpted: |
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> On Wednesday 18 January 2012 21:23:47 Duncan wrote: |
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>> If people want it, they can merge it, just like any other package. |
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>> Really, the same applies to busybox, and arguably, even to |
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>> module-init-tools (and the more recent replacement, kmod...), since |
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>> that's not needed if people choose to build all their drivers into the |
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>> kernel. |
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> |
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> not really. the # of people who build their kernel without module |
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> support is such a minority that they can suck it up and accept the |
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> additional dep, or simply use one of the many existing knobs in |
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> /etc/portage/ to disable it. |
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|
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That's why I said "arguably, even..." for the kernel modules suggestion. |
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I wasn't seriously making that argument, only stating that it could be |
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made. |
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|
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> busybox is there because we believe Gentoo should have a rescue shell |
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> installed for when the system/user eats things and needs recovery |
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> without resorting to a livecd. if you never make a mistake, then you're |
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> free to ignore it like anything else. |
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|
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Having other recovery arrangements (like the mentioned system backup |
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partition, reachable with a simple alternate root= on the command line) |
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!= never make a mistake! In fact, it's precisely because I'm all too |
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aware of the possibility of my own fat-fingering (or neural short- |
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circuiting) as well as recognition of the fact that I DO run ~arch and |
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even masked packages (like the live-git openrc-9999) that I set it up |
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that way, the rootbak solution being at once both FAR more resilient than |
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a busybox after all still installed on the same working partition that |
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we're assuming now has major faults of an unspecified type, thus |
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triggering the emergency in the first place, AND far more flexible, since |
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the rootbaky solution has all of the same tools in the same configuration |
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as the user was using at the time the backup took place. So if (as |
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happened to a famous LWN editor at one point) an in-hindsight unwise |
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system update shortly before a conference where an important presentation |
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was to be made breaks the working installation, simply boot to rootbak |
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instead, and do the presentation using a snapshot of the system taken |
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when it was known to be working say a month or two earlier. |
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|
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Busybox installed on a broken partition isn't going to help; neither will |
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busybox alone allow you to do your presentation coming up in 15 minutes, |
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if it's going to take 30 minutes of hacking to find and fix the problem. |
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Simply rebooting to a tested working rootbak snapshot of the system made |
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when it WAS working, using an alternate root= on the kernel command line, |
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allows both, and a single root= change in grub is going to be far easier |
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than working in an unfamiliar busybox environment, as well. |
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|
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Of course, that implies changes to the handbook, etc, to encourage users |
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to setup their rootbak partition (partitions, if /usr and /var are on |
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separate partitions), and to periodically update AND TEST the rootbak |
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system snapshot(s), when the system is known to be in a reasonably stable |
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state. |
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|
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But still, openssh is certainly the low hanging fruit, here, busybox less |
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so and not at all as long as it remains the recommended and default |
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emergency solution, and module-init-tools/kmod is only included as an |
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example of an excludeable should we REALLY want to get strict with |
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@system. |
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|
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Meanwhile, the great thing about Gentoo is that it provides mechanisms |
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such as /etc/portage/profile/packages for users who wish to, to make such |
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changes on their own. On that I'm quite sure pretty much everyone here |
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can agree, or we'd not be here discussing it in the first place! =:^) |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |