Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: "Steven J. Long" <slong@××××××××××××××××××.uk>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Portage QOS
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 10:35:34
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] Portage QOS by Igor
1 On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 Igor wrote:
2 > I've been using C/C++ since school it's fast, even bad code is working fast.
3 >
4 > I WOULD NEVER BELIVE PYTHON IS AS FAST AS C++ with math algorithms
5 > that do calculate staff and not call functions from pre-complied
6 > objects written in C/C++.
8 I would never believe it til I first saw pkgcore in action 5 or 6 years ago.
9 There's no point criticising portage, since everyone knows it's a pig of a
10 project, that's never had a rewrite: which is why its lead developer stepped
11 back and wrote pkgcore. And sure, most of its speed comes from using an
12 optimised C backend: snakeoil.
14 I'm assuming you have a Gentoo box and can use eix or equery to find these.
15 If not, you need to reconsider what you're doing. I'm also assuming you are
16 going to try pkgcore so you are better-informed, even if its latest
17 incarnation is not ready for mass-release; after all you're a developer,
18 so can deal with that, right?
20 > Friday, January 10, 2014, Patrick wrote:
21 > >> So why do we send Gentoo for food riding on Python? If it were death
22 > >> we send Gentoo for then I would choose Python but food?
23 >
24 > > I'm finding it very hard to stay polite, because ... honestly?
25 > > You have no idea what you're talking about.
26 >
27 > Or vice versa.
29 It's wierd, you veer between corporatist dogma, and mildly hallucinogenic
30 metaphor. So let's just say I have no idea what you are talking about in
31 some of your emails, or rather no idea why you reach for those metaphors.
33 > > If you want things to change - hire a few of us fulltime to work on
34 > > things, and you'll get the change you want.
35 > > Until then there's no need to point out that we are lacking manpower to
36 > > do large-scale changes, because that's been a constant in most
37 > > opensource projects since the 1960s.
38 >
39 > > Less talking, more doing - provide patches and stop polluting our
40 > > mailing list with your madness.
41 >
42 > See tge subject of this letter. The whole point of this conversation is that
43 > I offered to design it and program it and offered HARDWARE for it but we
44 > can't get to the point because it's not clear for everyone if we need it.
46 You're coming at this from the angle of a commercial developer, and basically
47 no-one really cares about any of that. There's loads of hardware available,
48 for example, since so many Gentoo users are in fact net admins. We do care
49 about improving the distro, so by all means go ahead and implement something;
50 the Gentwo thing sounds like a perfect collaboration opportunity.
52 If you want to work on something in FLOSS, you do so for your own reasons:
53 they're what keep you doing it, even when you think no-one else cares.
54 Coming at the list with your "offer to design and program" is the wrong way
55 round: loads of people offer the same sort of thing (it comes up about once
56 a year or so, afaict) and most never deliver anything. Project ideas are
57 two-a-penny.
59 Show us a working project, or the basis of one, and everything moves: other
60 users who want the same thing will help you with it. Bug reports will come
61 in and you can start to see where things need improvement. Assuming it
62 fills a need.
64 > If high command not needing it it will find means to kill it and I'm
65 > very busy, really very busy - can't afford to spend that much time on
66 > something not useful.
67 >
68 > We're in the middle of negotiations here.
70 No, you are not. As Duncan's history lesson pointed out, there is no "high
71 command." As Rich pointed out, if you want to implement something, go right
72 ahead and do it. Don't seek permission, since there isn't anyone to give
73 it. If you build it, and it is useful, they will use it ;)
75 Note you won't get anything out of that, beyond the reputation you appear
76 to wish to establish. Few people will thank you, though those that do will
77 make it all worthwhile; mostly what you'll get is more work. But the
78 bug reports will make your software better, and teach you an awful lot in
79 the process.
81 If you're looking for it to be an official project, there's no such thing;
82 only projects any Gentoo dev can have hosted, which does not make them
83 official by any means. You can look to get an ebuild into the portage tree,
84 and you can look to get infra to use your work (much harder.)
86 You're a *long* way away from even being able to suggest they look at
87 something, afaict. And even then it may not be something considered
88 essential to the functioning of the distro, but rather best left as an
89 external site. Or y'know some devs might take it up and run with it.
90 But you have to put the work in first.
92 In commercial terms, you have to deliver the prototype before any
93 discussion can begin. Until then, it's just vapourware, and with respect,
94 we've heard it all before.
96 In essence: just do it. And try to reduce the amount you post to the list;
97 it'll stop you getting snide remarks later on. Waiting a day or two between
98 posts is always advisable, and sticking to max two in any one day stops you
99 getting drawn into flame-wars.
101 Good luck :)
103 Regards,
104 steveL
105 --
106 #friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)