Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: --as-needed to default LDFLAGS (Was: RFC: Should preserve-libs be enabled by default?)

[Nirbheek Chauhan]

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Ciaran McCreesh
<ciaran.mccreesh@××××××××××.com> wrote:
>> Once again, you do not support your argument with anything but your
>> own word. Don't make me choke on the salt please :)
>
> Uhm. You're suggesting that the underlying issue is not a libtool
> problem? Or you're suggesting that as-needed fixes the libtool bug?
> Which basic fact that everyone discussing this should already know are
> you disputing?

I'm disputing your claim that fixing libtool is the correct solution
*right now*, and that it's sanely doable in a reasonable time-frame.
The former has been questioned by pretty much everyone else in the
thread, and the latter is probably false since you don't just do it
yourself.

>
>> Once again, rhetoric and insults without logic or reason. We all know
>> you know that you need facts to convince people, but you're not
>> providing any facts. One can only conclude that your purpose is not to
>> convince. I honestly am baffled what purpose you have in mind.
>
> I expect people to do their homework and understand what we're
> discussing. Do you expect me to start every post by explain what a
> linker is?

EDOESNOTMAKESENSE
You said

"[...]plenty of people are quite happy to jump in and yell when they
don't have the slightest clue what the root problem is[...]"

I replied saying that the paragraph was full of "rhetoric and insults
without logic or reason". The latter part of the post is purely about
how you're doing the same even where you should be talking with facts.

Your reply seriously does not make sense to me.

>
>> > And unfortunately, it looks like those people are the ones that're
>> > going to be making the decisions.
>>
>> Excellent, then you are free to point and laugh when we trip and fall.
>> In the meantime, if you truly think everyone is making the wrong
>> decision, talk with some facts and/or statistics.
>
> Fact: the underlying issue is a libtool bug.

Fact: It can't be fixed easily and/or in a reasonable time-frame. Else
someone would've done it -- heck you could've fixed it.

>
> Fact: as-needed does not fix this bug. It attempts to work around it.

Fact: It works. Unlike your vapour-proposal to "fix libtool".

>
> Fact: as-needed breaks standard-compliant code.

Fact: Breakages are rare, code which causes it is discouraged anyway,
and is fixable in any case. We're not a standards organisation.

>
> Fact: fixing the libtool bug would give all the benefits purportedly
> given by using as-needed, without the drawbacks.

Fact: It hasn't been done forever, and won't be done anytime soon.

>
> It's quite simple, and if there're any of the above that you didn't
> already know then why are you wasting everyone else's time discussing
> things in this thread without doing some basic research first?

It's quite simple, and you already knew all of the above, so why are
you wasting everyone's time and energy discussing these things in this
thread?

Quite refreshing, seeing you type out your points in a clear manner
for clearer rebuttal. I am going to assume that the matter is settled
now.

-- 
~Nirbheek Chauhan
-- 
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