Re: [gentoo-dev] desktop

[Paul de Vrieze]

On Thursday 28 August 2003 19:44, Spider wrote:
> begin  quote
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:00:13 +0200
>
> Paul de Vrieze <pauldv@g.o> wrote:
> > Gnome's configuration does not include a menu system with all
> > installed X applications
>
> No, and this is in many cases a -good- thing.  Gnome does not -need- to
> provide menu entries for xcalc, xmag, xeyes and a lot of other  X
> applications.  To include theese on a default menu would go against
> guidelines and common sense.
>
But in other cases a not so good thing. (The reason that I like a good menu 
system to be available)

> This means that for many such applications a good line of reasoning has
> to be added so our default "newbie-friendly" desktop doesn't end looking
> like L random User 's desktop did in the year 1997 after 1.5 years of
> active installation in windows 95. ie, it would be a clear sodomization
> of a good interface.
>
Certainly, I know the hell of installing in windows. It's not even so much the 
fact that all applications are installed as the fact that they all want a 
toplevel presence making a big cluttered menu of software vendors

>
>
> However, there are some points coming up otherways in the thread that we
> have to bring up front.
>
> 1) No major redesigns of the DE's.
> This is important, we shan't make all icons look like different versions
> of larry, replace all Foot's , K's and other such things with a G', make
> the default to include Gentoo Tip of the Day, add Gentoo.org links on
> every desktop, make all desktops install Evolution and add it as the
> default mailhandler everywhere "because its the best" .
>
I wouldn't mind people creating themes with cows in them, and could be 
persuaded to include them in kde, but I basically agree with you and would 
not like to go the redhat direction either (especially since their magic does 
not allways work creating a big mess).

> 2) We need a consensus and smooth integration of tools. This is the more
> important part of a Gentoo desktop.  A cdburner shall work for users in
> the 'cdrw' group, and preferrably without running a Druid or Wizard.
>
Couldn't agree more

> 3) Multimedia.
>   The various DE's partially integrate their own multimedia
> applications, but theese all use common backend libraries.
>
There are also multimedia applications that are not tied to DE's at all so I 
think we need a multimedia subproject too.

<cut>
>
> 4) Menu's
>   There's a lot of controversy here.  I want the installation of such a
> system  to be a consious act and preferrably kept off per default.
> (genmenu is a good example here. very good even.)

I agree, and I believe that is the direction the people who are working on it 
are going to.

>
> 5) extra-DE integration.
>   This mainly belongs upstream, as DE's move towards common standards
> this is something we can lean back and reap the fruits of.
>
Certainly, but there sometimes is more then just DE's, what about the many 
more standalone windowmanagers.

>
> 6) intra-DE modifications
>   I'm all for the various DE's implementing or removing features, as
> long as its maintainable, and sane.  Adding highstrung pipedreams that
> can't be made to work properly is not our thing.  Leave this to
> Mandrake, SuSE and RedHat. They are good at it.
>

Certainly.

<cut>

> 8) Extra
> What needs to be made work though, is a consistent set of graphics to be
> made avaiable, and perhaps default.  Fex, the GRUB loader should have a
> graphics design similar to the framebuffer background, as well as the
> GDM and KDM + elogin themes.
>
my idea of the vanilla flag would be for this kind of thing. To have the 
default gdm theme being the default instead of the gentoo one (which I like).

> This sort of branding is not intrusive on the user (framebuffer
> background is the most intrusive one, and should and could well be
> disabled by default)

> 9)  Decisions and communications
> All theese things need to be properly discussed and in the open. I was
> shocked to find out I suddenly got a manager who thought I was to run my
> decisions about including applications to the Gnome desktop by them, as
> well as the idea of a single uniformed Gentoo desktop is completely
> -appalling- to me.   In this regard the ruling cabal (ie, management)
> have flunked completely and their actions ,  and  more
> importantly, inactions are to be questioned.  This whole process could
> have been dealt with far nicer.

For me the final decision has not been made yet, but I believe there is a need 
for a -desktop toplevel. For the gnome and kde teams I guess its main role 
would be coordination, not making all kinds of decisions the gnome team is 
capable of making.

Paul

-- 
Paul de Vrieze
Gentoo Developer
Mail: pauldv@g.o
Homepage: http://www.devrieze.net