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On 08/08/2013 01:21 AM, Duncan wrote: |
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> Alex Alexander posted on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 05:51:38 +0300 as excerpted: |
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> |
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>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Patrick Lauer wrote: |
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>> |
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>>> On 08/07/2013 09:14 PM, Alexandre Rostovtsev wrote: |
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>>>> On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 14:45 +0200, Michael Weber wrote: |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> Gnome Herd decided to target stablilization of 3.8 [1] which |
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>>>>> requires systemd. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> What are the reasons to stable 3.8 and not 3.6, a version w/o this |
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>>>>> restriction, enabling all non systemd users to profit from this |
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>>>>> eye-candy as well. |
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>>>> |
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>>>> To stabilize gnome-3.6, we would need [people willing to do it]. |
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>>>> We do not have such people on the gnome team. |
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>>>> |
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>>> Seeing the noise in #gentoo from people getting whacked in the kidney |
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>>> by the systemd sidegrade ... that's a very optimistic decision. |
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>>> |
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>>> It'll cause lots of pain for users that suddenly can't start lvm |
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>>> properly and other nasty landmines |
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> |
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>>> I hope you understand that some of us will be very rude and just |
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>>> suggest to unmerge gnome on all support requests as it now moves |
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>>> outside our support range ... |
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>>> |
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>> Although I understand your frustration, I don't see any other options |
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>> for the Gentoo gnome team. People who don't like this should take their |
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>> complaints upstream. |
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> |
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> That reads to me like resigned acceptance. |
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> |
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> Gentoo/gnome is simply working with what upstream gnome gives them, which |
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> for gentoo/gnome users now means a choice between gnome with systemd and |
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> if no systemd, no gnome either. Upstream decision that gentoo/gnome is |
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> dealing with too. |
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> |
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> ... |
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> |
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> [Those uninterested in gentoo/kde can stop reading here, as the rest of |
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> the post is a complaint about that project not taking the same position.] |
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> |
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> Gentoo/kde users would be so lucky! |
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> |
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> As a gentoo/kde-er, I *WISH* the gentoo/kde team was as similarly willing |
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> to continue support for the options kde upstream *ARE* still providing -- |
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> kde4 with the semantic-desktop options turned off. Yes, this does mean |
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> doing without kdepim, but that has been the case for several versions, no |
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> upstream change there for 4.11, at least not for kde's base packages as |
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> necessary to run a kde desktop, yet gentoo carried support for building |
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> kde without semantic-desktop in 4.10, and doesn't in 4.11. |
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> |
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> Meanwhile, while the same build-time options that worked in 4.10 still |
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> work in 4.11 (I know, as I put a lot of work into patching the ebuilds |
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> here when gentoo/kde removed the options despite upstream continuing to |
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> have them), the gentoo/kde project has decided to force the semantic- |
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> desktop option ON for gentooers even where upstream continues to provide |
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> the option to turn it off! |
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> |
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> |
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> None-the-less, I do understand the problem of a gentoo project supporting |
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> an option no devs on the project are actually interested in running. |
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> Testing would be left to users, and quality would suffer a bit as a |
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> result, but I know for a fact that there's users out there DOING that |
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> testing, even with the additional cost of having to maintain ebuild |
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> patches themselves to do it, because I'm one of them! Further, I'm |
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> running 4.11.49.9999 live-branch and was running the betas before the |
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> branch from trunk, so there's at least one user actually doing that |
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> testing early enough to catch a good share of that feature's problems |
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> before they get anywhere close to ~arch, let alone stable. |
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> |
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> Despite, or perhaps /because/ of, all the previous pain kde upstream has |
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> caused its users with the 4.x bump (which unlike the 4.10/4.11 bump was |
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> at LEAST a major version bump) and with kdepim's switch to akonadi |
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> mid-4.x (which unfortunately was NOT a major version bump), this time |
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> there's no indication of upstream kde changing semantic-desktop horses |
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> mid-stream and mid-major-version and forcing it on like that; it's |
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> gentoo/kde that's doing it, pure and simple. |
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> |
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> And I've already posted that regardless of what upstream kde or gentoo/kde |
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> does, after all the trouble I went thru to rid my system of semantic- |
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> desktop earlier in the kde4 series, I'm not ABOUT to enable it again now, |
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> yes indeed, even if that means I unmerge the kde desktop entirely and |
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> switch to something else -- which after all I've already done for major |
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> portions of kde, including switching kmail->claws-mail when kdepim |
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> unfortunately jumped the shark mid-major-version. |
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> |
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> |
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> So as I said, gentoo/kde-ers would be so lucky, if the gentoo/kde project |
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> took the same position gentoo/gnome's taking here, that they support what |
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> upstream offers, that gentoo/gnome's only forcing systemd because |
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> upstream gnome's forcing it. Were that the case, semantic-desktop |
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> wouldn't be forced by gentoo/kde in kde 4.11, where upstream still offers |
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> the same options they did in 4.10, where gentoo/kde offered the option as |
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> well. |
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> |
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> Meanwhile, I guess I know what the kde-sunset users felt like now... |
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> except in that case as well as the gentoo/gnome case but unlike this one, |
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> upstream WAS dropping support, and the gentoo project was simply |
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> following upstream... |
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> |
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|
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Wow, that really sucks. I'm not posting this to the ML since I have |
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nothing to offer to their discussion. All this mess with GNOME and KDE |
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makes me happy to run vanilla X with Fluxbox, though. :P Which options |
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have you considered, if Gentoo/KDE doesn't re-enable the option to |
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disable semantic desktop? |
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|
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Regards, |
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|
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Daniel |