Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: FHS or not (WAS: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2014-03-11)

[Alec Warner]

On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Wyatt Epp <wyatt.epp@×××××.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 11:06 AM, William Hubbs <williamh@g.o>
> wrote:
> >
> > No sir, I was not telling a half-truth.
> >
> > If the default configuration is stored in /lib/udev/rules.d for example,
> > and you can override that default by dropping files of the same name in
> > /etc/udev/rules.d, I don't see what the concern is.
> >
> Oh, that's easy.  The concern is that, as a sysadmin, I have no idea
> what the current configuration even is, let alone any idea that the
> override is even possible or how the override file is formatted.  This
> problem is magnified for every thing that works this way multiplied
> again by every instance that the configuration needs to be checked or
> changed (because it likely needs to be looked up again because it's in
> a non-standard place and we humans don't remember things well if
> they're not a constant presence in our lives).
>
> In short: Making life easier for users is why distros even exist in
> the first place.  This method lacks transparency and makes life harder
> for users.
>

I think this is a reasonable thing to ask for, I just doubt anyone will
volunteer to implement it.


>
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Alec Warner <antarus@g.o> wrote:
> >
> > it is easy for a some users to determine, using existing tools (vim,
> less,
> > etc.) to view what the configuration state is.
> >
> This point is incredibly important:  It should really never require a
> search engine to even determine what the current config looks like.  I
> don't care if it involves moving the canonical config, or putting a
> stub config in /etc with a comment to the effect of:
> # This file is for overrides; please see /lib/foo/bar for the default
> system configuration.
>
> ...or throwing a bunch of code at it to invent a better config
> tracking tool (again), or whatever.
>
> Or say "screw it" and this thread dies with no tangible action like so
> many others; enjoy your papercuts, users.
>
> > When the default configs are in /lib/udev/.../ and the over-rides are in
> > /etc/udev/.../ that is perhaps less clear. Many applications already
> provide
> > app specific tools for this. You can run apt-config dump to dump your
> entire
> > apt configuration (on debian / ubuntu) for example. I'm unsure if polkit
> or
> > dbus have a tool that will read in the configuration and dump what the
> > daemon thinks the state would be (if it loaded it.) (puppet has
> >
> Oh PLEASE don't let this become a trend.  I can't fathom any
> legitimate reason to reinvent cat repeatedly.
>


Many of the config files are large, and splitting them into segments makes
it easier to read.


> > gconf, dconf, polkit, dbus, all do stuff like this. I actually find the
> > solution somewhat elegant from my side as a sysadmin.
> >
> I'm curious: how many people have you encountered who even know those
> can be configured?  (Never mind things like "how does this work?" or
> "what does this even do?"; you've made a very nice list of things
> hardly anyone understands. :/ )
>

I configure dbus and polkit on a regular basis...but I also managed a very
large fleet of desktops, and very few servers. Pretty much the exact
opposite of most Gentoo developers I think, which is why I have the
opposite opinion of many of them.

>
> Cheers,
> Wyatt
>
>