Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Aron Griffis <agriffis@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] where goes Gentoo?
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:18:31
1 Hello,
3 A user wrote to me personally:
4 > i thought several times if i wanted to reply at all, and after
5 > i wrote my mail if i really should send it out. I finally decided to
6 > send it off list since this might just end up in flames on the list.
8 I hope you don't mind I'm putting this back on the list. If you are
9 concerned, then there are probably others in the same boat. Hopefully
10 my response below will ease their concerns as well as yours.
12 > So here it is:
13 >
14 > On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:55:50PM -0400, Aron Griffis wrote:
15 > > Also I find it amusing when people say that Gentoo exists for the
16 > > users. I think that is wrong. Gentoo exists for the *developers*.
17 > > It's our playground, and it's the reason we use a live tree rather
18 > > than switching to an actually sane approach. The users are cool
19 > > because they point out bugs, help solve problems on bugzilla, suggest
20 > > enhancements, provide patches, and notify us of package updates.
21 > > Sometimes they become developers. But the truth is that Gentoo sees
22 > > improvement and maintenance in the areas that appeal to the
23 > > developers. And that is why Gentoo exists for the developers first,
24 > > the users second.
25 >
26 > Sheesh, i really don't know what to say. I really don't have
27 > a problem with developers having fun by doing their work, but
28 > a linux _distribution_ is probably one things intended most directly
29 > at users. I've been a user for a long time, and i always tried to
30 > give something back by filing bug reports or helping other users.
31 > I had the feeling my contribution was welcome and i never wanted to
32 > leech the guys doing development off. As for today, i can say pretty
33 > sure i've given quite an amount of time (and even some money) to
34 > Gentoo. I've had my share of fun with it, but seeing you dividing
35 > people involved in Gentoo into developers (good, have fun, their
36 > playground) and users (bad, but we'll have to live with them) really
37 > makes me speechless. Gentoo should be there for everyone
38 > disregarding if he's developer or not. If you don't like that, turn
39 > of the rsync mirrors and let only devs check out the tree. ;-)
40 >
41 > Maybe i've just gotten your statement really wrong, but as far
42 > i understand it, i really have a bad feeling about it.
44 I entirely see your point, and I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong
45 impression. I really appreciate your contributions, and I take pride
46 in helping to fix bugs that affect you and other users. I think it's
47 great that Gentoo is a distribution that has such a welcoming
48 reputation.
50 My point was not that I don't care about users. It was that the
51 developers working on Gentoo are ultimately here because it's a fun
52 project. We decide our own priorities, and none of us is completely
53 self-sacrificial. The areas that see real improvement are the areas
54 that are interesting to the developers. This is a contrast from the
55 commercial distributions, which see improvement in the areas that
56 customers demand, or which management perceives as adding value.
58 Let me give you an example: epm. I wrote epm, a work-alike to rpm.
59 A lot of people use it, and I've gotten a number of feature requests
60 in bugzilla. In response, I often request a patch, then eventually
61 close the bug because no patch is forthcoming.
63 If I were working for paying customers, this would not be an option
64 (provided the feature requests were reasonable). It would be my
65 *responsibility* to cater to the request. In Gentoo, however,
66 developers are able to use their own discretion. This is what I am
67 talking about.
69 (Psst... I'll let you in on a little secret. It doesn't have to
70 be a good patch. If a user gives me a really crappy patch, I'll
71 usually work on an implementation just because I appreciate that
72 they made an effort. Heck, even a detailed and thoughtful
73 description will usually suffice... ;-)
75 I hope that this clears up your confusion and puts us on the same team
76 again.
78 Best regards,
79 Aron
80 --
81 gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] where goes Gentoo? Haas Wernfried <w.haas@×××××××××××××××××××.at>