Re: [gentoo-dev] where goes Gentoo?

[Aron Griffis]

Hello,

A user wrote to me personally:
> i thought several times if i wanted to reply at all, and after
> i wrote my mail if i really should send it out. I finally decided to
> send it off list since this might just end up in flames on the list.

I hope you don't mind I'm putting this back on the list.  If you are
concerned, then there are probably others in the same boat.  Hopefully
my response below will ease their concerns as well as yours.

> So here it is:
>
> On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 07:55:50PM -0400, Aron Griffis wrote:
> > Also I find it amusing when people say that Gentoo exists for the
> > users.  I think that is wrong.  Gentoo exists for the *developers*.
> > It's our playground, and it's the reason we use a live tree rather
> > than switching to an actually sane approach.  The users are cool
> > because they point out bugs, help solve problems on bugzilla, suggest
> > enhancements, provide patches, and notify us of package updates.
> > Sometimes they become developers.  But the truth is that Gentoo sees
> > improvement and maintenance in the areas that appeal to the
> > developers.  And that is why Gentoo exists for the developers first,
> > the users second.
>
> Sheesh, i really don't know what to say. I really don't have
> a problem with developers having fun by doing their work, but
> a linux _distribution_ is probably one things intended most directly
> at users.  I've been a user for a long time, and i always tried to
> give something back by filing bug reports or helping other users.
> I had the feeling my contribution was welcome and i never wanted to
> leech the guys doing development off. As for today, i can say pretty
> sure i've given quite an amount of time (and even some money) to
> Gentoo. I've had my share of fun with it, but seeing you dividing
> people involved in Gentoo into developers (good, have fun, their
> playground) and users (bad, but we'll have to live with them) really
> makes me speechless. Gentoo should be there for everyone
> disregarding if he's developer or not. If you don't like that, turn
> of the rsync mirrors and let only devs check out the tree. ;-)
>
> Maybe i've just gotten your statement really wrong, but as far
> i understand it, i really have a bad feeling about it.

I entirely see your point, and I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong
impression.  I really appreciate your contributions, and I take pride
in helping to fix bugs that affect you and other users.  I think it's
great that Gentoo is a distribution that has such a welcoming
reputation.

My point was not that I don't care about users.  It was that the
developers working on Gentoo are ultimately here because it's a fun
project.  We decide our own priorities, and none of us is completely
self-sacrificial.  The areas that see real improvement are the areas
that are interesting to the developers.  This is a contrast from the
commercial distributions, which see improvement in the areas that
customers demand, or which management perceives as adding value.

Let me give you an example: epm.  I wrote epm, a work-alike to rpm.
A lot of people use it, and I've gotten a number of feature requests
in bugzilla.  In response, I often request a patch, then eventually
close the bug because no patch is forthcoming.

If I were working for paying customers, this would not be an option
(provided the feature requests were reasonable).  It would be my
*responsibility* to cater to the request.  In Gentoo, however,
developers are able to use their own discretion.  This is what I am
talking about.

    (Psst... I'll let you in on a little secret.  It doesn't have to
    be a good patch.  If a user gives me a really crappy patch, I'll
    usually work on an implementation just because I appreciate that
    they made an effort.  Heck, even a detailed and thoughtful
    description will usually suffice... ;-)

I hope that this clears up your confusion and puts us on the same team
again.

Best regards,
Aron
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