Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Daniel Robbins <drobbins.daniel@×××××.com>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:06:52
Message-Id: 226689f10703041203v374a2aean988dae92c5279592@mail.gmail.com
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting by Ciaran McCreesh
1 Ciaran,
2
3 What I do know is that you should not be allowed to insult random
4 developers like Jakub when it suits you. If things get slightly more
5 unpleasant or unproductive for a brief period of time while I find an
6 appropriate mechanism to remove you from this list (due to AWOL
7 project leadership,) I consider that time well spent. You clearly
8 should not be here.
9
10 If anyone should apologize, the Gentoo project leadership should
11 apologize for not removing you from the list sooner. This project is
12 screwed if people who act like you are allowed to stick around.
13
14 Since you seem to agree with me that your participation on this list
15 has been a waste of your time, I await an announcement of a separate
16 PMS list hosted on non-Gentoo infrastructure on which you will discuss
17 your work, as well as your timely unsubscription from this list.
18
19 -Daniel
20
21 On 3/4/07, Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@×××××××.org> wrote:
22 > On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:03:54 -0700 "Daniel Robbins"
23 > <drobbins.daniel@×××××.com> wrote:
24 > > In defense of my confusion, certainly appears from the perspective of
25 > > the gentoo-dev ml that you are leading at the very least the
26 > > day-to-day management of the project.
27 >
28 > No, as I've already told you, I'm just the one who hasn't decided to
29 > ignore all this pointless noise yet.
30 >
31 > > PMS is a project that is not an offical Gentoo project, but is
32 > > controlled by a Gentoo developer (spb), is hosted on external
33 > > infrastructure, does not have a Gentoo Foundation copyright.
34 >
35 > PMS is a QA subproject. It even has a subproject page now.
36 >
37 > > The council may try to impose a deadline on PMS but it is a non-Gentoo
38 > > project and thus out of its scope of influence in all areas besides
39 > > areas of mutual coordination.
40 >
41 > The Council imposing a deadline upon PMS would have exactly the same
42 > effect as the Council imposing a deadline upon anything else.
43 >
44 > > Significant contributions to PMS are coming from Ciaran, someone who
45 > > has been explicitly banned from Gentoo development
46 >
47 > Untrue. I haven't been banned from Gentoo development, and I've been
48 > contributing to plenty of things for a long time.
49 >
50 > > The specification is designed to document
51 > > that functionality that ebuilds can rely on. Paludis, a non-Gentoo
52 > > project lead by Ciaran, will likely be the first conformant
53 > > implementation, after which the process will begin to get it adopted
54 > > as official policy for Gentoo ebuilds, via the Council and QA.
55 >
56 > The first conformant implementation will likely be Portage, unless
57 > Portage has some particularly nasty bugs that take a long time to fix.
58 >
59 > Paludis will likely be the first conformant *independent*
60 > implementation. An independent implementation is generally considered
61 > necessary for something to be a proper standard rather than a
62 > description of a program.
63 >
64 >
65 > > I *think* I have all that right? OK, I will accept this.
66 > >
67 > > If that's the case, I'm suggesting the following "tweak" to the plans.
68 > >
69 > > a) move PMS discussion off this list
70 >
71 > That would be great. There has been absolutely nothing of value
72 > received from people discussing PMS on this list. Moving it onto a list
73 > where the PMS project lead can remove people who contribute nothing to
74 > the discussion would be very helpful.
75 >
76 > > It's also not worth keeping PMS on this list for a number of reasons,
77 > > and confuses people (me included) as to whether it is an official
78 > > Gentoo project.
79 >
80 > If you're confused, it's because you didn't do your research before
81 > jumping in with all your accusations.
82 >
83 > > b) You (Ciaran) should unsubscribe from this list.
84 > >
85 > > Rationale: You (Ciaran) have already been explicitly banned from
86 > > Gentoo development
87 >
88 > Untrue.
89 >
90 > > yet are acting as the project's official spokesman on this list which
91 > > is clearly a Gentoo development list.
92 >
93 > Also untrue, as you have been told several times.
94 >
95 > > I am asking that you have a basic respect for your removal from
96 > > Gentoo, despite your personal feelings, which to me means that you
97 > > are not "involved" as a developer on a day-to-day basis and not
98 > > working directly with other Gentoo developers - except those that
99 > > might want or need to work with you on non-Gentoo projects (who can
100 > > then freely interact with you on non-Gentoo lists.)
101 >
102 > Funnily enough, I'm working quite happily with more Gentoo developers
103 > that most other Gentoo developers, both on official Gentoo projects and
104 > on external projects.
105 >
106 > > This should not impede your work or that of PMS, as interested parties
107 > > can just subscribe to those non-Gentoo lists. In fact I expect this
108 > > will help to accelerate PMS development dramatically.
109 >
110 > If accelerating PMS development is your goal, I suggest you stop
111 > commenting upon it... This thread has become a massive waste of time
112 > thanks mainly to your input.
113 >
114 > > *That* is what I have been trying to do, with the priority placed on
115 > > getting Gentoo going in the right direction.
116 >
117 > I think you need to step back and admit that at present, you're not
118 > familiar enough with how Gentoo is operating to provide any kind of
119 > input on that sort of topic. Give yourself time to get back into the
120 > flow of things, learn what projects like PMS are *before* you start
121 > jumping in on discussions. Apologise to everyone whose time you wasted
122 > by making them read this thread if you like, but more importantly don't
123 > do it again.
124 >
125 > --
126 > Ciaran McCreesh
127 > Mail : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
128 > Web : http://ciaranm.org/
129 > Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/
130 >
131 >
132 >
133 --
134 gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@×××××××.org>
Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting bret curtis <psi29a@g.o>