Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Stuart Herbert <stuart@g.o>
To: Max Kalika <max@g.o>, Troy Dack <tad@g.o>, gentoo-dev@g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] [GLEP] Web Application Installation
Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 23:54:12
In Reply to: [gentoo-dev] Re: [gentoo-core] [GLEP] Web Application Installation by Max Kalika
1 First off - thank you Troy for getting this moving. Nice one ;-)
3 On Sunday 03 August 2003 12:11 am, Max Kalika wrote:
4 > > * for files to be served to clients::
5 > >
6 > > /usr/share/webapps/<application>/files/
7 >
8 > I think this should just be /usr/share/webapps/<application>/
10 Sorry, but I very strongly disagree. Not every web application needs all its
11 files to be accessable via a web browser.
13 /usr/share/webapps/htdocs/ for files that should be accessable via a web
14 browser. This leaves room for any other files (PHP scripts are the one that
15 comes to mind for me) to go into other sub-directories if required.
17 (Confession: I do have a personal interest. I write web apps professionally,
18 and none of them have the PHP files available for serving out via the web
19 browser.)
21 > The eclass currently puts them as /etc/webapps/<application>.conf. This
22 > way they are parallel to the application configuration files and are also
23 > web-server independent, all while being protected by CONFIG_PROTECT. The
24 > ebuild informs the user to how to activate the installed app which, when
25 > executed,
26 > just creates a link into the already-configured apache directory.
28 I'd prefer /etc/webapps/<application>/, again for future flexibility where a
29 web application has more than one configuration file. I don't mind frigging
30 apps to look in more than one place for a config file. I do mind patching
31 apps to use just the one file.
33 The less we have to patch an app, the less work we're going to make for
34 ourselves - especially on the support side.
36 > - Determining what modules mod_php has built into it. Currently, I have
37 > a quick and dirty function in the webapp eclass called check_php() which
38 > looks for a particular USE flag in /var/db/pkg/dev-php/mod_php*/USE.
39 > This probably needs to be a bit cleaner.
41 If Robin doesn't beat me to it, I'll write a script that we can add to Portage
42 to standardise getting this information.
44 W.r.t. PHP detection, we have two other problems:
46 a) Depending on virtual/php is useless, because it doesn't guarantee that
47 mod_php is installed (could be that PHP/CLI is installed) - unless you've
48 already fixed this Robin? Anyway, it doesn't tell you what version of PHP is
49 installed - and some apps need specific versions of PHP (yes, they're broken,
50 but that doesn't mean we shouldn't support them).
51 b) Depending on mod_php will break once PHP/CGI is added to Portage. Again,
52 maybe Robin's already put something in place to deal with this (we've
53 discussed it off-list in the past).
55 What shape are other languages in for their dependencies? Not every webapp is
56 going to be written in PHP ...
58 > - Certain web applications need to have write access to the directory
59 > where they are installed (curse them!) :-)
61 Well, write access to directories under htdocs at any rate. TikiWiki - which
62 we're looking to use for a Gentoo website - has this annoying feature.
64 > - Great care must be taken to properly prepare the configuration files.
65 > For example, Horde config files have paths defined relative to the
66 > config file itself so some sed magic was used to fix a lot of it.
68 You use sed, I'd apply patches, and I'm sure there's other ways too that
69 people would like to use. So long as they get the right result, I don't
70 think we need to standardise on the approach.
72 > Standardization should always be applauded. :-)
74 Urgh ;-) If everything in life was standardised, we'd be running RedHat, not
75 busy upsetting the apple-cart with this upstart project ;-)
77 Two other things I want to chuck in, if I can.
79 First off, where are webapp ebuilds going to live in Portage? I'd like to see
80 a set of 'web-???' categories myself, so that web apps are clearly visible
81 and easy to find. I don't think they should disappear under 'net-www' or
82 into various 'app-???' directories.
84 Secondly, are we going to establish a webapps herd to look after the packages
85 that will be added? If so, feel free to add me to the list of maintainers.
86 If not, then what solution do you suggest?
88 I think the ebuilds for web apps should be ENTIRELY webserver neutral. This
89 is why I've done nothing with Max's eclass myself. There should be userland
90 tools for creating an instance of an app under Apache or whatever. Yes, I
91 know that most people will run Apache, and not care about this, but Gentoo's
92 supposed to be about configurability. We have a chance to get some solid
93 foundations in - I say let's get digging.
95 Best regards,
96 Stu
97 --
98 Stuart Herbert stuart@g.o
99 Gentoo Developer
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104 --


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] [GLEP] Web Application Installation Max Kalika <max@g.o>