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On 15 May 2013 21:41, Fabio Erculiani <lxnay@g.o> wrote: |
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> Are we realizing that in order to keep systemd out of our way, we're |
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> currently writing and maintaining drop-in replacements for the |
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> features that systemd is already providing in an actively maintained |
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> state? openrc-settingsd was the first thing that we as Gentoo |
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> developers (Pacho?) had to write in order to merge GNOME 3.6 into our |
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> tree. |
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It's well known that Gnome is part and parcel of the whole vertical |
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integration circus. |
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> And (and!) how does all this fit together with eudev? If the idea is |
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> to either put logind in udev (thus, not creating a separate logind |
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> ebuild), it means that eudev is already a dead end for GNOME users, |
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> unless the eudev team is going to provide logind as well. |
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I'm not sure what the eudev team is planning, but it's been working |
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well so far for me. And since I don't use Gnome, it's not an issue as |
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long as other desktop environments are not making the same mistakes. |
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> I don't want to start a flamewar here, I was the one who called |
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> Lennart software lennartware, but science is science, and a reality |
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> check had to be done: at some near point in the future, our users will |
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> be forced to replace udev/eudev with systemd. Like it. Or not. |
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This isn't science. And unless you use Gnome, I don't see why we would |
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be forced to use systemd. KDE, Xfce, LXDE and Razor-qt are still happy |
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to support non-systemd operating systems. The way I see it is that |
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Gnome is making itself more of a non-option on Gentoo, Slackware and |
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BSD systems. |
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> While I successfully use both openrc and systemd, I _do_ think that |
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> (and expect to see) more and more users (and developers) will be |
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> switching to systemd. |
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> Is there anything we can do? Besides "being prepared", I don't think so. |
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> Do we control upstreams? No, sorry. |
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We don't control upstreams, but we still have choices. At this point I |
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only see Gnome and udev upstreams who are forcing their users to use |
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systemd. (There may be other projects too that I'm not aware of.) |
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> So what do we want to do then? Isolate from the rest of the world? |
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> (It's not a sarcastic question). I hope that everybody does their own |
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> reality check. |
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We say that Gentoo stands for choice. That is why we should resist |
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allowing systemd (and Gnome) to take those choices away with their |
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mistaken idea of vertical integration. We do have other options. |
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-- |
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Cheers, |
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|
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Ben | yngwin |
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Gentoo developer |
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