Re: [gentoo-dev] Is Gentoo dying?

[Dale]

Alec Warner wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Joshua Saddler<nightmorph@g.o>  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Apr 2010 11:16:32 +0200
>> Tobias Scherbaum<dertobi123@g.o>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> - Our formerly outstanding documentation still is somewhat maintained,
>>> but that's it. I haven't seen any new additions (both to our docs, but
>>> also to our docs-team) for years. People are constantly asking for a
>>> documentation wiki, but ...
>>>
>> Thanks for sh**ting on my efforts. There are lots of visible changes, and I make a point of getting the word out when a new guide turns up in /doc/. I blog about the new docs I add, and I spend awhile working with contributors to make sure we get good stuff out there and that it's constantly updated -- the Openbox guide Nate Zachary wrote comes to mind. I'm also always working with developers who are writing docs in their spare time, coaching 'em through the process, assisting with GuideXML, taking patches, *and* creating patches and updates for devs who are posting documents in /proj/ and in their personal devspace. But I guess that doesn't mean anything to you.
>>
>> Oh yes, and I spend hours each week constantly updating docs based on the inflow of bugs, forum reports, and I constantly re-read each one and improve stuff where I can on-the-fly. Not everything has a bug tracker, but the end result is still a visible difference in the stuff you see on the website.
>>
> You need to take comments less personally.  If there is a constant
> stream of updates then point him at your cia comment log or similar;
> no need to pick a fight about it.  Certainly when compared to our
> documentation of old I think the rate of new documents and document
> updates is likely less now than it was then.  Perhaps what Tobias is
> trying to convey is that he wants more people to contribute and write
> documents.
>
>
>>
>>> - Website redesign - we had a contest some years ago, got a winner,
>>> someone started to adapt the design and somewhat that project fall
>>> asleep.
>>>
>> We've added quite a bit, with the automated feeds and whatnot. And the sidebar stuff. And the revamping of our releases page, and lots of other areas. I've added lots of stuff; I guess you just haven't noticed.
>>
> Lots of content sure; not so much on the design side.  I personally
> like our website and I think the design is fine (no need to put too
> much effort into it IMHO.) but if other folks want to spend time on it
> I'm not going to say no.  I still think something like taking what we
> have and doing the redesign on non-gentoo stuff and then being like
> 'yo dawg I heard you like websites so i put a website in your website
> so you can browse while you browse' or similar is the way to iterate.
>
>
>>
>>> - Speaking of our website, PR ... guess there's nothing more to add.
>>>
>> Thanks for sh**ting on my efforts here, too. Take SCALE last month. I guess all the work I did to organize SCALE and go out and make a difference with our (potential) users by talking with them doesn't mean anything. All the word-of-mouth I've done with folks before and after SCALE, even my coworkers must not count for much.
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> I would have expected such this kind of negative, abrasive email from a user, but to see such a sensationalist letter coming from a developer is disappointing, to say the least. I expect better from you. Because whether you realize it or not, your email can only come across as denigrating my efforts, and everyone else who puts in hard work on (actually visible!) changes.
>>
>> Your email was inflammatory and offensive, but not in the way that motivates me to do more or do anything different. It came across as extremely demotivational.
>>
>>
> Well it certainly hi-lights one area; that we often fail at
> communicating what we are doing.  The pr team has some great people on
> it who do great stuff (not including me; I tend to do as little as
> possible.)  Maybe Tobias is blissfully unaware of the efforts of the
> team.  Maybe he thinks the team can do better.  I don't see him saying
> 'well the pr team sucks balls!'  I see him saying 'well the pr team is
> very quiet.'  I don't think that is too far from the truth; although
> certainly pr@ is active it doesn't look like it from anyone not on
> that alias (SCALE aside.)
>
> -A
>
>

As a user, I see both sides of this.  I rarely go to the actual Gentoo 
site and mostly read the home page when I do.  I may go to a link once 
in a while that is posted on the mailing list but that is about it.

I think what I see from the OP is that he feels there needs to be more 
people involved in several areas.  I don't know you Joshua but if you 
are doing a lot of the docs by yourself or with just a few helpers, I 
think you need more help.  The pages I do see are really good and I read 
other people using other distros commend Gentoo on its documentation.  
It just that maybe you need more help so that even more things can be 
done.  Look at it this way, what would happen if you had twice the help 
you have now and where would Gentoo's docs be a year from now?

I'm not trying to put words in the OPs mouth here but just trying to see 
it from the point of view that he wants things to be better with more 
people involved.  Personally, I wish Gentoo had twice of everything it 
has now.  Not that things would be that much better but that people 
wouldn't burn out and feel like they are loaded down when things pop 
up.  I felt sorry for the KDE folks when KDE4 was released.  It just had 
to be a nightmare to get all that in the tree at once.  If they had 
twice as many people working on it tho, it would have been easier.  The 
people doing all that work wouldn't feel like they had to work so hard 
to get everything ready.

Back to my hole now.

Dale

:-)  :-)