Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Grant Goodyear <grant@××××××××××××××.edu>
To: gentoo-dev@××××××××××.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] gentoo's portage
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:35:23
In Reply to: [gentoo-dev] gentoo's portage by Sami Cokar
1 > 1) documentation: please ensure the 'build' options
2 > (/etc/ are explained as to what all the three letter
3 > acronyms mean and the impact/dependencies of picking them
5 Probably true, although /etc/make.conf does say pretty clearly not
6 to use those flags:
8 # Other build related use flags (don't use these)
9 # -----------------------------
10 # pic static build simpleinit
13 > 2)documentation: the departure from 'normal' system startup scripts
14 > needs to described. What will happen when a 'normal' non-gentoo
15 > application tries to install itself expecting a 'standard' layout?
17 True, we do need much better documentation on our new start-up scripts.
18 I assume that there will eventually be an IBM developerworks article
19 on how they work, but we really should have something now.
21 > 3) portage: a great drawback seems that 'constant human effort' is
22 > required to ensure the portage tree is updated. I can see this becoming
23 > an issue for gentoo. There are many applications released and updated
24 > that must conform to the portage system to make sure 'the latest and
25 > greatest' really IS available "as advertised" on the web site :) eg. I
26 > needed the latest Matrox drivers and Powerdesk utility which I installed
27 > manually. my system's portage is not aware of manual installs I perform
28 > and I needed the drivers before they could be added to the 'gentoo
29 > portage' tree.
31 So far our solution has been to make the ebuild so simple to write
32 that it is nearly as fast to write the ebuild and use that as it
33 is to do the usual ./configure && make && make install series.
34 There are of course special cases that are not as simple, but often
35 updating an ebuild for a newer version of a package is as simple
36 as just changing the name of the ebuild to reflect the new version
37 number. If you do write your own ebuilds, please send a copy to
38 us at!
41 > 4) portage: sounds powerful - perhaps it can also be used as a means of
42 > a useful/automated/'user-friendly' 'uninstall' which is sorely lacking
43 > in the unix world. I have tried 4+ distributions of Linux and am
44 > getting a bit tired of telling their respective 'uninstall' that when I
45 > want to remove a game, I would STILL like to keep gnome on my system.
47 Portage uninstalls work very well, but there are a couple of glitches.
48 It is still possible to have a (broken) ebuild that installs files
49 directly to the filesystem (instead of using a "fake install" first),
50 and those files aren't removed by Portage. Also, right now if gnome
51 is removed by Portage, the packages that depend on gnome will not be,
52 thereby potentially breaking lots of stuff. These issues are being
53 worked upon, but we're a pretty busy group!
55 > 5) portage: if possible (space requirements, etc), 'generic 386'
56 > binaries for the base system should be in the portage tree so that
57 > initial installs/builds can progress faster. the 'emerge system' on my
58 > P4 1.4 took a looong time. Would be better to have as much generic base
59 > system and then be able to fine tune as desired.
61 When 1.0 comes out there will be .iso's with binary packages that
62 can be installed directly. It's just that Gentoo development has
63 been too rapid and unstable recently to make that feasible at the
64 moment. I think that Gentoo is stable enough now, however, that
65 our next release really should have binaries available.
67 > 6) portage: organization. consider reducing the # of categories.
68 > People can mainly remember 7 +/- 2 items of information. go into
69 > /usr/portage and there are a lot of choices which will only increase in
70 > the future. Consider:
72 It may be that we just need a better index (or search system), rather
73 than fewer categories, but I'm pretty agnostic on this one.
75 Welcome to Gentoo Linux!
77 -Grant-
78 --
79 ___________________________________________________________________
80 | Grant Goodyear | The Secrets of Physics: |
81 | Dept. of Chemistry - Clemson U |1. Add zero. |
82 | Clemson, SC 29634 |2. Multiply by one. |
83 |-------------------------------------|3. Expand in a Taylor series|
84 |e-mail: goodyea@×××××××.edu |4. Integrate by parts. |
85 | |5. Fourier transform. |
86 | |6. Add auxiliary variables |
87 |_____________________________________|____________________________|