Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: "Rick \\\"Zero_Chaos\\\" Farina" <zerochaos@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2013 19:54:52
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up by Rich Freeman
2 Hash: SHA1
4 On 12/09/2013 10:28 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
5 > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
6 > <zerochaos@g.o> wrote:
7 >> I can honestly say most of the time when setup my arm systems I'm
8 >> unpacking the arm stage3 on an amd64 and then booting the arm device
9 >> with the base stage3 and fixing things from there. I suppose it is
10 >> possible to use qemu to install things, as long as I don't mind
11 >> pretending it's 1999 due to the slow emulation speeds... Yeah, I really
12 >> don't see an improvement here. It works fine for "I'm an amd64 user and
13 >> that's all I'll ever use" but when you start talking about smaller
14 >> arches it really starts to become a hassle imho.
15 >
16 > Ok, now the concern is becoming more clear. You're intending to boot
17 > directly to the stage3 and not chroot into it, and so you want the
18 > stage3 to be a fully-functional userspace, though you don't actually
19 > need it to contain a kernel/bootloader.
21 Correct
22 >
23 > How do you even log into the stage3? Do we not disable the root
24 > password by default?
26 No, we don't disable it. It's trivial to set without chrooting (steev
27 has details in his response and that isn't he point of this thread)
28 >
29 > Can you boot off of the minimal install image instead? Not sure if we
30 > have one of those for ARM. Actually, any boot image that sets up a
31 > network and supports chroot would work fine for your purposes. I do
32 > realize that many (all?) ARM platforms don't have a flexible
33 > bootloader like x86 typically does - so I'll let you speak to what
34 > makes sense here.
36 Sadly no, again covered by steev in his response we don't off anything
37 bootable for arm at all.
38 >
39 > Following the handbook, the network is established by the boot CD and
40 > all you do before chrooting is copy over your resolv.conf. In that
41 > environment there is no need to have a networking system pre-installed
42 > on the stage3.
44 Well hold on there... the handbook doesn't mention anything about
45 emerging your choice of network manager just yet, and when everything
46 including dhcpcd isn't in the stage3 you will need to do more than copy
47 resolv.conf (which honestly I never do anyway) or it won't work very well.
48 >
49 > Oh, and if I'm not mistaken the stage3 is based on the system set
50 > which is established by the profile, so if it made sense to keep
51 > networking around for ARM that would be an option.
52 >
54 I grant this is an option, but what about guys like steev? He has a
55 large stack of arm devices and like 1 amd64 box. What if he wants to
56 put a stage3 on a disk for his amd64 box from his arm box? I'd love to
57 see him emulate an amd64 from his arm to install dhcpcd.
59 Now granted, that's being a little pedantic, as he could probably use
60 one of the gentoo isos available to boot instead, but the point is we
61 are removing software that gives the user a choice under the guise of
62 giving the user a choice.
64 I really don't like the idea of having no networking in the stage3 by
65 default, however, I'm becoming more open minded on what qualifies as
66 networking. What I'm wrestling with is this, what if I want to slap a
67 stage3 on a device and then access it from the network? Almost nothing
68 in my place has a monitor (amd64 and arm alike) and I use one of my two
69 laptops to talk to everything else. Say I want to rebuild a headless
70 machine, what am I supposed to do? Unpack a stage3, install some
71 network manager manually (netifrc for me) and then boot? Granted, we
72 already have to do this for any device which is wifi only as
73 wpa_supplicant isn't in the stage3, but to remove this ability from
74 wired devices as well.... I'm torn, I really don't think it's a great
75 idea. I really feel that while the rest of the world is trying to get
76 more functionality out of their hardware we are trying to save ~200k and
77 possibly crippling user experience in the process.
79 Is removing ~200k really worth the potential downside? Honestly, if we
80 are going on the merits of smaller downloads let's argue about using xz
81 instead of bzip2 for the stages...
83 - -Zero
85 Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
86 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird -
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101 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up William Hubbs <williamh@g.o>