Re: [gentoo-dev] OT Getting to know others in Gentoo was -> No Java Team, Java neglect was -> Reverse use of Python/Ruby versions

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

This is long. I will not reply. All is said, but a decent read if you
take the time.

On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 11:18:58 +0200
>
> You're saying that nobody really knows you, have you considered
> spending some time to reflect on how you present yourself on this
> mailing list and other communication channels?

Addressed below, out of order

> Maybe taking another
> few minutes writing an email can get your message across in a way
> that seems more constructive? Pure volume and repetition of issues
> surely doesn't benefit anyone, and quickly becomes boring.

What some perceive as volume; is simply me replying to replies to my
posts. I do not tend to reply when people are talking to others. I let
them have their conversation. Another mentioned that someone else
started a topic then seemed to lose interest. Seems you could be
accused of the same if not posting enough or stopping on a thread you
started.

If I said something to a group or individual in person. Then someone
replied. I would not ignore their reply. That is rude and
disrespectful.What others see as noise is me being polite and replying
to those who have replied to my post. It is not trying to get the last
word. It is simply being polite as I would in person. I would not walk
away mid discussion. Would you in person?

Think on that for a moment, and it should logically explain volumes of
mail. It also takes two to tango.... Not like I am sending repeat posts
that have no replies. talking to myself, etc. That would be spamming,
one way posting. Discussions are not spam. Though can annoy and be
unwanted for some.

Why email clients have a DELETE button, and also a nifty feature called
Filters. Do not like me. Filter any of my posts to trash. If you are
not doing that. They you prove my point further down.

That said, to address the first part;

Mailing lists are a HORRIBLE way to get to know someone. I would NEVER
assume anything about a another based on posts to a mailing list. Even
IRC and other things are not really that much better. I know better!!!

To get to know someone a person needs to take considerable time 
interacting with them. Not a single person around here actually
interacts with me or works with me. It is not up to me for others to
get to know me. That is for them.

I work with other projects without any issues... Any issue I have is
unique to Gentoo and its rude and insulting, disrespectful community.

I purposely live and keep a private life for a reason. I do not do
social media etc. I have neighbors, who for years who made incorrect
assumptions. They could have approached and gotten to know me at any
time. When one did, they realized they were VERY wrong. They lived near
me for over a decade with incorrect assumptions. Horribly incorrect!

It is not my responsibility, nor do I need to spend my time, for
another to get to know me. That is their choice. Thus I do not need to
go out of my way to make myself known.

This same thing has happened at my local LUG. People made complete
incorrect assumptions causing a problem. When we met to resolve things
in person. Their first impression and comment was; Man did I get you
all wrong. I came here with one mindset. Soon as I saw you and we
greeted. It went out the window. That happens all the time. We never
discussed the problem. They realized they were wrong the second we
met... Problem went out the window.... They expected to meet one person
and another showed up... ME!!! Not who they thought I was...

Things in life are not always what they appear to be. People think I
drive others way. But in reality its the opposite. Recently in talking
in IRC others showed up in a dead channel. At my LUG my presence is
frequently requested. Though I rarely attend, in part due to a falling
out. Which the meeting previously mentioned mended. Though since I was
mistreated due to incorrect judgment in my own local community. It
changed my involvement and interest in that group. For their loss more
than mine. Same applies to Gentoo. These are lessons learned over time.

I do know I am a pot stirrer and that is a good thing. Even if cooking
all day in a crock pot. At some point things need to be stirred. That
is one thing that is accurately known and I acknowledge and embrace.

That said, I have met many gentoo devs in person. Sadly most of them
have moved on. Though some are still around. I have met Robbin/robbat2
in person. Though it was years ago and I doubt he recalls my
personality much. He did not go down to San Jose and other things.
Though did go out to dinner with the Gentoo crew from LWE. Robbin and I
have VERY different personalities. I am not your typical Tech
personality type.

I represented Gentoo in person at the Gentoo booth, as an official
representative of the Gentoo Foundation, several times at LWE in San
Francisco.  That was the largest event Gentoo has ever had a presence
at to my knowledge. Thousands of people. We would interact with Gentoo
related vendors like OpenGear who tooks us out drinking. I am really
good at such things. Because despite what people around here assume. I
have really good people skills. Dealing with people in person and
online is different. I am also NEVER approached in person as I am
online.

The things people say and how they act towards me in Gentoo. They would
never in person. That is part of it. People feel empowered in ways they
would not. Hiding behind a keyboard. Saying things to another's face is
quite different. Not meaning violence or anything. Just in actually
looking someone in the eye when your insulting them, disrespecting,
etc. Not to mention other people tend to react different when they see
such in person.

Now not to boost, but I was one of the funner ones of the LWE Gentoo
group. I was more outgoing, social, cracking jokes,  and surprise
surprise talking etc. I talk even more in person than I type....
Vapier/Spanky/Mike Frysinger and I got along really well. He is
hilarious and a really fun guy. You will never have an idea about that
guy either if you do not meet him. Him like myself comes off VERY
different via digital mediums, lists, etc.

Even those who harrassed me on the foundation lists and caused me to
resign as a trustee. I stayed the night at their place one night and
invited them to a relatives home in Northern California. Even then
ended up treating me in ways I would not then. Though again in person
next year at LWE. they would NOT come speak to me after what they did
to me.... They were embarrassed as I was walking and talking to another
Gentoo developer we both new and were friends with.

When I first showed up on -project making noise last fall. Vapier/Mike
sent me an email asking if I was going to go to SCALE. Which I replied
but my reply I think ended up in spam or junk folder he never got it.
Knowing that, I decided to not go to SCALE. I do not really feel close
enough to the Gentoo community as I did for LWE.

When I first went to LWE it was to meet my mentor, Josh Nichols, who
works for Github now days. It was due to the relationships built as
part of the Java team then. Times were very different. If Gentoo was
then like it is now. I would never have become a developer. The people
were nicer, more welcoming, etc. It is why Gentoo WAS one of, if not
the fastest growing FOSS project in its early days.

When people make assumptions about others based on posts to a mailing
list etc. It seems they may have a limited view of the world and lack
of world experience. The more you travel, learn other cultures, etc.
You learn not to assume about others. Cultures alone can be very
different. You also learn respect is a VERY big thing. In the US in my
area and others. Lack of showing respect can result in violence. In
business lack of respect can really be costly just the same. In Asian
cultures, respect is HUGE.

Not knowing me aside. My biggest gripe around Gentoo is how people
treat each other. How others approach me and the things they say I
would never. I do not go off instructing others how to conduct
themselves. Making assumptions about their knowledge etc and being
critical or flat out insulting. But all around interaction with people
you do not know. I would never approach someone I did not know the ways
I am approached. I see it happening to others so its not unique to me
at all. It is the present Gentoo culture, and horrible unfriendly
atmosphere around the community. One I have mostly been absent from.

It really blows my mind sometimes the comments people make. I
routinely think "Who does this person think they are".  The nerve of
some people. To think they are so high and mighty to preach to another,
tell them how to conduct themselves, etc. 

I live by the golden rule, and most all that has been done to me. I
would never to do to others. I would not stand for those things for
to be done to anyone. No on deserves  such. Nor do I believe those doing
such things would feel the same if things were reversed.

C'est la vie....

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.