[gentoo-dev] Regen2 ( was QA Overlay Layout support )

[Caleb Cushing]

I'd like to start with, I'm not trying to stir up trouble but since
questions were asked i'll answer them.

> If you think neither should exist why do you have an opinion about this at all?

I merged the java-overlay into regen2 a couple of weeks ago. as of
right now I've no plans to support java-experimental.

I'm fine with overlays so long as working ebuilds spend no more than a
few weeks in them. I have my own development branch and half the stuff
that's in there that isn't in the main tree doesn't work. Things like
perl 5.10 have been rotting in an overlay for a year. Funtoo  ( under
my direction ) and Regen2 have had it ~arch for over a month now. We
found one bug post release thus far. I filed a bug on xorg-server
1.6.0 not being in tree. It was resolved fixed (in overlay) (which
another bug clearly states it has amd64 build issues). since when has
(in overlay) been an acceptable solution to a missing package? I said
it before, the reason I like gentoo* distro's is I don't have to find
the repository to get the latest package, that's just a pain, in
ubuntu, in opensuse, in fedora... etc. But no more... officially
supported huge overlays have ruined this.

on the topic of sunrise, I approve of sunrise to a degree. I like the
non-reviewed half, but once they're reviewed they should be put in
tree. Isn't it true that some of those packages never get maintainers?

> What makes you think that overlays aren't for developers, aspiring developers
> and interested users where they are working on stuff?

users don't know how to hack. the very definition of user says that,
imo. There are developers, admins, and users. admins don't want
overlays, they are supposed to be unstable. users can't hack, so what
do they care. the problem is, an overlay has become a repo, I'm not
sure that it was originally intended for that.

> It is desirable IMO that
> all such people can easily be given full access to muck around and learn.

this does not mean officially supported overlays. You obviously won't
commit just anything to an officially supported overlay which suggests
that you don't allow 'mucking around'.

> Further, overlays are good places to put ebuilds for software that is more
> experimental than what's expected for ~arch. That includes live ebuilds. In the
> end, overlays have a (far) lower level of guaranteed quality than the main tree,
> for their ebuilds

because ~arch is supposed to work? take open bug on wine-1.1.16 it
doesn't build on amd64 and yet it's ~amd64. how about that nam ebuild
that has invalid bash that I mentioned? that's some quality work
there. The point is the tree is no better or worse than the overlays
in many cases.

> might even argue that Funtoo is one big overlay. When your own ability to
> contribute directly depends on an overlay, then why are you arguing against
> other people's overlays?

perhaps this is the real problem gentoo's primary way to accept user
contributions is via overlays. I disagree with the calling of Funtoo
as one big overlay, it's a replacement tree, and it provides
everything needed within that tree, as does regen2. overlays however
rely on an external tree, and now you've been discussing making them
rely on other overlays.

> Please point me to the people willing and having the time to maintain
> those >100 new ebuilds in the main tree.

given all the problems with the in tree ebuilds that aren't properly
maintained, I see no difference.

Regen2, is attempting to fix these problems, and more. I do try to get
my fixes back upstream here, but more often than not the bug
languishes. I don't think Gentoo is bad, but I do think it's taken a
wrong turn. But I suppose that these things are problems are simply my
opinion.

I've probably already offended a large share of people on this list,
now lets see if I can offend a few more by soliciting.

I consider Regen2 ready for use, but pre-release since I have yet to
roll ISO's and tarballs. Anyone who wants to help is welcome, be you
current, former or aspiring developer. More info at http://regen2.org

I will not discuss regen2 further on this list as I feel this is not
really the place, but I was asked. I am willing to discuss overlays
further, but I'm not sure I really have more to say. I suppose the
last thing would be back in the day I got everything from the tree, if
I wanted, needed something else I downloaded an individual ebuild, and
put it in /my/ local overlay. I didn't download a bunch of incomplete
mini-trees using a tool.
-- 
Caleb Cushing

http://xenoterracide.blogspot.com