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Hi! |
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On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:08:06 -0400 Rich Freeman wrote: |
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> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 8:26 AM Ben Kohler <bkohler@g.o> wrote: |
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> > |
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> > 1) Adjust x86 profile defaults to drop the problematic -march=i686. |
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> > This would be more in line with amd64 profiles (et al), which set no |
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> > -march value so it can run on any hardware for this arch. |
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> > |
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> |
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> My knee-jerk reaction was that this is a bad idea, but after a bit of |
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> thought there are some arguments in favor of this: |
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> |
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> First, the argument against: i386 is VERY old. Most distros moved |
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> their defaults to i686 because it had significant improvements, and |
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> i686 was still mainstream but i386 was ancient. In contrast with |
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> amd64 the entire architecture is fairly new and the baseline doesn't |
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> suffer from many of the issues i386 suffers compared to i686. This is |
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> a really short synopsis - if you go to any distro list archive you can |
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> find long passionate arguments from ~10 years ago that elaborated on |
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> this. In that sense, going back to i386 is turning back the clock. |
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> |
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> HOWEVER, I think there is an argument for i386 that wasn't so valid |
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> back then. x86 in general is starting to look a bit like i386. What |
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> are the main use cases for it in this day and age? I don't use x86, |
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> so I'm not the best person to answer that. However, I'd broadly split |
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> it into two categories (mostly by tautology): |
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> |
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> 1. Museum hardware. People have systems that are running simply |
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> BECAUSE they are old, not because they are cost-effective/etc. I'm |
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> not sure I'd even lump used hardware into this category any longer, as |
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> I'm sure there are plenty of i686+ used PCs at rock-bottom prices |
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> already out there, and maintaining pre-Y2K hardware is going to be |
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> fairly painful. For this use case i386 as the baseline makes a LOT of |
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> sense. |
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> |
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> 2. Non-museum hardware. People have x86 hardware because it is the |
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> most cost-effective solution for a task, and not merely because it is |
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> old. IMO for this use case i686 makes a lot more sense as a baseline. |
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> However, I'm honestly not sure in this day and age what these use |
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> cases even are, unless it is something you can buy for $10 at a flea |
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> market. Even if you're talking about a container running one |
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> application that only needs 500kB of RAM, is there really that much |
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> benefit to not building it for amd64? |
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|
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As active x86 hardware user I can add: |
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|
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3. Security. CPUs without speculative execution and L3 cache are |
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much more secure by design. Thanks to the virtues of Gentoo |
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(highest possible code optimization and ability to USE light |
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versions of applications) such hardware (e.g. 32bit Atoms) is still |
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usable quite fine. |
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|
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Best regards, |
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Andrew Savchenko |