Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: james <garftd@×××××××.net>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] libpcre.so.3 - Compatibility with Debian
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2016 14:12:35
Message-Id: eb1bd7c8-cda3-bf68-7ba4-2f69d9fafaa2@verizon.net
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] libpcre.so.3 - Compatibility with Debian by Kent Fredric
1 On 08/11/2016 07:32 PM, Kent Fredric wrote:
2 > On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:27:14 -0700
3 > Patrick McLean <chutzpah@g.o> wrote:
4 >
5 >> It's not like there is a shortage of
6 >> packages that install crappy crap on your system...
7 >
8 > In this instance I agree that we're kinda stressing about the wrong
9 > thing.
10 >
11 > But I can't support that reasoning.
12 >
13 > "There is bad stuff in tree so why not have more" is not a great line
14 > of reasoning.
15 >
16 > We want things to be *better*, we should shy away from that reasoning.
17 >
18 > The *reason* here is "user choice".
19 >
20 > As much as Gentoo developers may have problems with steam, user-choice
21 > orientation dictates we should at least consider supporting it in some
22 > regard, and if we can do so without affecting the people who don't want
23 > steam, we should also strive to do that.
24 >
25 > And we *can*.
26 >
27 > That's why its better as an independent thing, not as core mechanics in
28 > libpcre.
29 >
30
31 One possible solution, is to realize that everyone is right from their
32 perspective. OK. Then how do *we* find an acceptable solution set? Well,
33 this is not the first time and it's occurring more and more frequently
34 in gentoo, from my perspective, that our ying-n-yang of secure vs
35 innovation is pulling the devs apart.
36
37 1. We do need an extraordinarily (think hardened++) secure gentoo, as
38 the nefarious activities of interlopers is becoming an avalanche on
39 computing and networking (Think Zener (or avalance) diode). [1]
40 A few quick and easy, stage-4 offerings for common needs, would be a
41 strong recruiting tool for gentoo. ymmv.
42
43
44 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche_diode
45
46 Certainly QA is part of that solution, and those folks are 100% correct.
47
48 2. Gentoo needs to have a version (jentoo?) so that we can return to
49 raw innovation, of anything and everything any technoid wants to pursue.
50 To me, that was and is the heart and soul of gentoo; but that postulate
51 alone wreaks of multifaceted danger. (danger Will Robinson, danger!).
52 Still my needs and heart is with these innovative folks, 100%, and yes
53 it is due to my new found addiction to all things clusterd.
54
55
56 So, how about we use (VMs/Container/unikernels/embedded/<and many more
57 approaches>) to allow both to coexist on the same hardware? Now, whether
58 Gentoo(hardened) is the main host and Jentoo(the latest innovation) is
59 the VM or vice-versa, remains to be explored and proven and provided as
60 a choice. Deeply embedded, hardened-gentoo, located on a usb stick, does
61 appeal to many different uses and it can be quickly unplugged by the
62 local admin, as an added fail-safe feature. Choice is preeminent, imho.
63
64
65 I'd like to see Jentoo, become the most innovative platform in the
66 entire FOSS world, as gentoo once was. For now, they (Gentoo and
67 Jentoo) could be run on different (hardware) systems and combined later,
68 when viable mechanisms are proposed, tested and vetted. This thread of
69 consternation only servers to 'yet again' validate both needs. Jentoo
70 could live out of an alternative repo, and the rules for putting codes
71 in there, are managed by the devs that favor innovation over
72 constriction. In fact, we could also experiment with an open source
73 alternative (gitlab?) in lieu of github (just a thought, do not get your
74 panties in a bunch over this)?
75
76
77 Gentoo, does need a 'tight-assed', secure and reliability first mantra
78 to move forward to serve the computational worlds needs. Security is at
79 a breaking point, imho; hacker news has a posting about systemd and
80 buntu in full meltdown related to (server)clusters. Furthermore,
81 nation-states have a vesting interest in taxing the productive for a
82 variety of reasons, and network/computing/communications instability is
83 the new 'cold war' where excessive taxes, robber-barron greed, and
84 globalization are converging towards war(3). So do not look to
85 governments or the globalist to prevent war. I'm not certain that gentoo
86 can prevent this, but it's worth a little effort, no?
87
88
89 If we can make a secure peace with both the innovative and the secure
90 camps, within Gentoo (and Jentoo), then perhaps the computational world
91 will follow our lead. Vendors (greeds) are going to plunge us into WW3,
92 if folks do not 'wise up' and 'pull together'.
93
94 (also, I'm not hung up on 'Jentoo' as a name; perhaps 'Gintoo'?
95
96 (peace && hth),
97 James

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] libpcre.so.3 - Compatibility with Debian Kent Fredric <kentnl@g.o>