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On 08/11/2016 07:32 PM, Kent Fredric wrote: |
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> On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 17:27:14 -0700 |
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> Patrick McLean <chutzpah@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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>> It's not like there is a shortage of |
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>> packages that install crappy crap on your system... |
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> |
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> In this instance I agree that we're kinda stressing about the wrong |
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> thing. |
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> |
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> But I can't support that reasoning. |
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> |
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> "There is bad stuff in tree so why not have more" is not a great line |
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> of reasoning. |
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> |
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> We want things to be *better*, we should shy away from that reasoning. |
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> |
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> The *reason* here is "user choice". |
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> |
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> As much as Gentoo developers may have problems with steam, user-choice |
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> orientation dictates we should at least consider supporting it in some |
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> regard, and if we can do so without affecting the people who don't want |
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> steam, we should also strive to do that. |
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> |
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> And we *can*. |
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> |
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> That's why its better as an independent thing, not as core mechanics in |
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> libpcre. |
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> |
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One possible solution, is to realize that everyone is right from their |
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perspective. OK. Then how do *we* find an acceptable solution set? Well, |
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this is not the first time and it's occurring more and more frequently |
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in gentoo, from my perspective, that our ying-n-yang of secure vs |
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innovation is pulling the devs apart. |
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|
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1. We do need an extraordinarily (think hardened++) secure gentoo, as |
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the nefarious activities of interlopers is becoming an avalanche on |
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computing and networking (Think Zener (or avalance) diode). [1] |
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A few quick and easy, stage-4 offerings for common needs, would be a |
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strong recruiting tool for gentoo. ymmv. |
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[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalanche_diode |
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Certainly QA is part of that solution, and those folks are 100% correct. |
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2. Gentoo needs to have a version (jentoo?) so that we can return to |
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raw innovation, of anything and everything any technoid wants to pursue. |
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To me, that was and is the heart and soul of gentoo; but that postulate |
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alone wreaks of multifaceted danger. (danger Will Robinson, danger!). |
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Still my needs and heart is with these innovative folks, 100%, and yes |
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it is due to my new found addiction to all things clusterd. |
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So, how about we use (VMs/Container/unikernels/embedded/<and many more |
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approaches>) to allow both to coexist on the same hardware? Now, whether |
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Gentoo(hardened) is the main host and Jentoo(the latest innovation) is |
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the VM or vice-versa, remains to be explored and proven and provided as |
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a choice. Deeply embedded, hardened-gentoo, located on a usb stick, does |
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appeal to many different uses and it can be quickly unplugged by the |
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local admin, as an added fail-safe feature. Choice is preeminent, imho. |
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I'd like to see Jentoo, become the most innovative platform in the |
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entire FOSS world, as gentoo once was. For now, they (Gentoo and |
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Jentoo) could be run on different (hardware) systems and combined later, |
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when viable mechanisms are proposed, tested and vetted. This thread of |
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consternation only servers to 'yet again' validate both needs. Jentoo |
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could live out of an alternative repo, and the rules for putting codes |
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in there, are managed by the devs that favor innovation over |
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constriction. In fact, we could also experiment with an open source |
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alternative (gitlab?) in lieu of github (just a thought, do not get your |
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panties in a bunch over this)? |
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Gentoo, does need a 'tight-assed', secure and reliability first mantra |
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to move forward to serve the computational worlds needs. Security is at |
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a breaking point, imho; hacker news has a posting about systemd and |
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buntu in full meltdown related to (server)clusters. Furthermore, |
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nation-states have a vesting interest in taxing the productive for a |
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variety of reasons, and network/computing/communications instability is |
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the new 'cold war' where excessive taxes, robber-barron greed, and |
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globalization are converging towards war(3). So do not look to |
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governments or the globalist to prevent war. I'm not certain that gentoo |
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can prevent this, but it's worth a little effort, no? |
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If we can make a secure peace with both the innovative and the secure |
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camps, within Gentoo (and Jentoo), then perhaps the computational world |
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will follow our lead. Vendors (greeds) are going to plunge us into WW3, |
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if folks do not 'wise up' and 'pull together'. |
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(also, I'm not hung up on 'Jentoo' as a name; perhaps 'Gintoo'? |
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(peace && hth), |
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James |