1 |
Hello, |
2 |
|
3 |
I'd like to raise another issue I've met again recently. Shortly put, |
4 |
some of our projects are relying too much on their overlays. The net |
5 |
result is that some of their packages in the tree are not well-tested, |
6 |
semi-broken and users end up being hurt by that. |
7 |
|
8 |
The major project where this can be seen is science. With no offense |
9 |
intended, but I'm afraid that sometimes the team itself is losing track |
10 |
of what has been committed to the tree and what is in the overlay, |
11 |
and especially which versions are compatible. |
12 |
|
13 |
Another similar project having this problem seems to be lisp. From bug |
14 |
#465864 (which points to many other bugs not fixed in gx86), you can |
15 |
gather: |
16 |
|
17 |
"Anybody who intends to use something lisp-related (like maxima) |
18 |
in Gentoo seriously always uses this overlay. There are too few |
19 |
developers in the common-lisp herd, and the main tree remains |
20 |
neglected for years." (by Andrey Grozin) |
21 |
|
22 |
which shortly shows that in some areas the issues are really serious. |
23 |
|
24 |
Teams, what are the main reasons for keeping that much stuff |
25 |
in overlays? What can be done to avoid it? |
26 |
|
27 |
While I can see the benefits of, say, testing extraordinarily |
28 |
experimental stuff in overlays or keeping there stuff that is not |
29 |
intended to land in gx86 at all (like some custom hacks), I feel like |
30 |
just keeping the newer versions of some packages is more of issue |
31 |
breeder to us. |
32 |
|
33 |
Please remember that most of our users doesn't know those rules. |
34 |
If I am looking for a good mathematics package, I take maxima, though |
35 |
I have almost no idea of lisp except for parentheses. The lisp-related |
36 |
flags are confusing to me and ever worse is the fact that the default |
37 |
choice simply doesn't build. Then I try alternate implementations. |
38 |
|
39 |
Expecting users to grep bugzie or some other kind of pages to find that |
40 |
they are supported to install an overlay to properly use package that |
41 |
is in gx86 is not good. The sole existence and use of overlay is |
42 |
causing the gx86 package and/or its deps to be in increasingly worse |
43 |
shape. |
44 |
|
45 |
If the problem is really manpower, I think you should try to work with |
46 |
proxy-maint. If that's not enough, then we need to find a better |
47 |
solution. |
48 |
|
49 |
In the worst case, we may prefer to move some of the packages out of |
50 |
gx86 and specifically expect all users to use an overlay, consistently. |
51 |
But in this case, we should probably consider redesigning Gentoo to be |
52 |
based more on official or semi-official repositories like Exherbo |
53 |
so that all users would have equal rights. |
54 |
|
55 |
As a last note, I'd like to note that I'm talking about lisp that much |
56 |
because maxima is a recent case where I've seen this. But there were |
57 |
even worse things with science overlay, lapack and blas -- including |
58 |
getting the system into a state where neither gx86, nor science overlay |
59 |
packages work. |
60 |
|
61 |
-- |
62 |
Best regards, |
63 |
Michał Górny |